TheHighWay

What you are all posting about being terrified when you left twi... that is the ONE and only one reason I am so thankful I waited as long as I did before leaving. I was unhappy for a long, long time. And I had really gotten "almost" to the point of leaving. I actually told myself I didn't care if God did turn his back on me, I couldn't take life the way I was living it any more! Fortunately, by the time I left, the Allen lawsuit had hit, I had discussed the issues with my leadership, spouse, online, etc. I had already come to the conclusion that it was THEM not ME a few months before I got booted. (my ONE regret, I let them boot me before I told them to take a hike) I worried about if divorcing my husband was something God would frown at, but I never worried once about leaving twi.

Wow, this thread strikes a chord with me... Stupid thing was, I was afraid BEFORE I joined twi. I joined them BECAUSE I was afraid, and thought they had the answers I was looking for. I thought following their teachings would take my fear away. And it did. For a while. Then they replaced my original fears with their own set of fears. And I was afraid again. Only this time I didn't know it. And the fear kept me there. Until I got outraged enough at their horrible, self-righteous, harmful behaviors. Got angry enough to say, I honestly don't care if God doesn't love me any more, I can't do this another day. What's that verse about evil calling black "white" and white "black"... that's twi in a nutshell. They defined evil, and defined good, and then did evil and told us it was good. Some magic trick!

Wow, so much to think about here... so many valid points brought up. 1) Train up a child in the way they should go... -- this doesn't require a religious group, this requires good sound parenting, which I know you provide 2) I want my kids to have a hunger for God's Word like I did... -- it sounds like she does already. Maybe not a hunger for a church setting, but certainly a sense of doing the right thing and of knowing there is a god out there and a part of her life. 3) The teenage years are hard and being in twi helped me stay on the right path -- maybe, but I can't help wonder if it really wasn't your own moral compass, hidden underneath the way's teachings, that really kept you on the right track ... after all, YOU were the one who chose to listen and believe and make your choices ... a lot of kids in twi in their teen years didn't 3) Once you see the fault in the logic of TWI, you see the fault in the logic of any organized religion -- Absolutely!!!! I have no problem attending the occassional church service with a friend but I can't even consider joining one. And it isn't that I can't commit to anything. I've taken on many additional responsibilities and commitments at work and in the community in my post-twi years. I just can't do the church thing. 4) Being in the Way has hardened her heart to the teaching of the Word by any organization -- Maybe she can't tolerate the organization but I don't know how you can say she has hardened her heart to the Word... didn't Jesus spend most of his ministry trying to teach people that it isn't the washing of pots and the outward showing of religious service that was important, but the inward understanding of the meaning and purpose of religion. In other words, if she is a kind, thoughtful, patient, generous, helpful, and industrious person, and she knows that there is some higher power out there, and she knows that she can trust her mom to be there for her when she needs her... shoot, I think you've got the whole world on a silver platter right there.

Good topic, lindyhopper... I'm pretty sure you've got the gist of the story right... guy saw doc vic, heard he was a man of god, asked for a healing. Vic asked him if he believed God could heal him and the man said, "Yes, but I don't believe in your Jesus". VP asked him again if he believed God could heal him... same answer. If I'm not mistaken, the way it is told in the class is that this exchange happened three times. And then VP commanded the guys arm be healed in the name of Jesus Christ, and told him to raise it. He did. And then Doc said something like, "Thank God that you were healed in the name of Jesus Christ." I guess I had just relegated this and every other incident accounted in PFAL as just so much BS or an anecdote stolen from another teacher. (I'm not saying I don't believe in miracles I'm just saying I no longer believe this particular source.) THW

What an interesting contrast... If there was any way possible to spin a believer's death to be their own fault, it was proclaimed to the far reaches. (as in the staff gal who was hit by a truck, and blamed for being away from hq at the wrong time, or as in the staff gal who died during childbirth and both she and her hubby were blamed)... BUT If the death is obviously not the fault of the victim, and cannot in any way be spun that way, they hide it and never even tell people it happened. Good grief, what an evil, evil group.

Oh, so very well said, Rascal !!!!!

Ditto to: I lived it. What a mess. Totally different personalities. Totally different approaches to life, except "twi rules" as our over-riding philosophy. I struggled to suppress the real me, in order to defer to the head of the household. I grew steadily miserable, he remained willfully clueless and do-less. Bottom line, over time I changed and he didn't. I chose to stop swallowing every piece of crap twi dished out and I stopped suppressing it when I had doubts and questions. He didn't like it. Drew a line in the sand. I turned on my heel and walked away.

RE Vic: He was a mean, crotchety old man who ran roughshod over people, hated women, and enjoyed the superiority that he felt when he made other people uncomfortable. ------------------------------------------------- I must say that is one of the most accurate descriptions of the man I've heard!! Of course, this is the same fella that prided himself on the fact that he referred to his brother Harry's favorite suit jacket as "calf-$h!t brown". Who the heck was he to teach us anything about handling other people?????

Love this post!! Know exactly what you mean. Whenever some wonderful, generous person nods me through I always try to make sure they SEE me wave my acknowledgement... I want them to know how much I appreciate that little moment of kindness out of their lives. Thanks Socks for bringing this to mind.

Hiway, I actually liked the devil-blob... it reminded me a bit of the electrical monster from Johnny Quest! Oh, and for those of you who saw the AOS production live I have a question... on the video there's this elaborate lighting sequence to introduce the One True God, culminating in.... a blank, empty stage. I always thought that looked so moronic on the video. I was told that there were actually lots of white lights blazing onto the stage and it gave off a cool glow (IN PERSON). Can anyone confirm if this was true? The (other)HighWay

Doojable, the answer in my case is that you need to live at a root locale for a couple of years during the AOS era... we heard that soundtrack as pre-music for every meal, every meeting, every sns, every event... yikes!! I'm quite sure I'll have to die to get those tunes completely out of my head.

Abi, my dear... hope your day was all you wanted and more!!! TheHighWay

This has been my post-twi philosophy as well. And it was recently thrown back in my face as a wishy-washy, non-committal way of dealing with life. The comments hurt me deeper than I would have expected. (perhaps because they came at the same time I was being hit with upheaval in some other categories of my life). All I know is... I was a miserable unhappy wretch my last years in twi. I couldn't ask for help when I needed it because I would be accused of spiritual weakness and that just made things worse. I had nothing to offer others because every minute of my life was being sucked up by this group. And even when I wanted to reach out and help someone else, I wasn't allowed to because I wasn't trying to run the person through their fellowships or classes. So now, while I cannot tolerate any kind of formal religious service, and while I no longer know the answers to all of life's questions, I still feel (most days) that I am a more spiritually tapped-in person today than I was when I left twi. I certainly know I am a more tolerant, kind, helpful, peaceful, and patient soul than I ever was in my twi days. And doesn't the Bible point out examples of people who show their Godliness by their actions toward others, as opposed to their religious show of service? Sometimes I actually think twi did me a service by becoming so overtly ungodly during the nineties. At least by the time I left I knew it wasn't me, it was them. It did make it easier to walk away from everything they taught and start over.

I saw/experienced this kind of condemnation all the time. You weren't supposed to get sick. Your kids weren't supposed to get sick. Not even the sniffles. But what hypocrisy!! Doc Vic smoked like a chimney and lost his eye, and died of cancer... I remember him teaching about no condemnation, that sometimes you do your best to believe and you don't know why or where you missed it but the physical healing doesn't come through... you just go on believing. And we thought, what a great man... I guess he got a special dispensation, being the MOGFODAT and all... The rest of us peons... well, we couldn't believe to keep the rain off the tents at ROA... we couldn't believe to keep ourselves healthy... we were just a worthless unbelieving lot weren't we?

Wait a sec... didn't Doc Vic say he was quoting someone on this particular line? I don't remember him ever taking direct credit for this particular saying as he did so many other stolen turns of phrase. Or, has my brain just gotten old and forgetful?

I've been in that situation... someone posts a fond memory of a leader that they really liked or that really helped them, and who I know in later years became a destructive monster. Usually, I don't say anything. I ask myself "what would be the benefit?" and most often the answer is, "not much". I agree with those who have said, trust your gut, and if you feel the need to respond, do it with a Private Message, not on the boards.

Did twi make up their own words and put them to the tune of Beautiful Ohio? (none of these lyrics sound at all familiar to me!)

Good one, WordWolf!!

The easiest ice-breaker I know is to ask questions -- not to be fishing for an opening to 'sell' the Bible but because you actually WANT to hear the answer!! If you can get other people talking about themselves, it won't be long before a topic comes up where you can contribute to the conversation.

I absolutely loved my first couple of ROAs... young and single... just a pup tent, sleeping bag, and the Bible... free to walk around where I wanted, when I wanted... sit in on a twig that looked cool and fun... live on green grapes and almonds all week because of the heat... just soak up the atmosphere... everything was new... I absolutely hated the last few ROAs... married with a toddler and in the corps and the chorus choir... traveling "light" meant taking a huge tent and rain tarp, playpen, high chair, folding chairs and table, a huge cooler, stroller and toys, a million diapers, a hanging rack and hanging shelves to contain all the different kinds of clothes necessary to attend corps week and the Rock, and my formal gown for the choir!!!! Took about three trips on the people movers back and forth from the car to tent city. And I began to hate running into people I knew because I knew they would want to know how the Word was moving in our area, which it WASN'T and I felt completely guilty about. Not to mention the oppression and regulation... you WILL attend YOUR twig at 11am... you WILL work at your ASSIGNED work station at your ASSIGNED time... you WILL NOT sit in your tent and listen to the evening teaching on the radio... PHOOEY!!!! I was secretly mortified and thrilled when they cancelled it, just like I was secretly mortified and thrilled when I got booted from the corps...

Good grief, Charlie Brown!! Just how dead-on can they be? 10 for 10 by my count.

If it makes you feel any better, it doesn't sound to me like she's in too deep, yet... if she's willing to get information from different groups against her instructions, and if she's willing to NOT send in abundant sharing in order to make sure her bank isn't overdrawn... that means she is still thinking independently. She may really want to please the leaders of her group, but her common sense is still over-riding their extremism. Always a good thing! Just how long was she affiliated with Geer's group? The "girl's house" in Chicago is part of that group? How long has she been in Chicago? Does she have a full-time job there? Or is her only reason for moving to be a part of this group home? All of these answers can help to indicate where her head is at...

Wendy... You didn't say how old your daughter is... (My answer if she is 17 might be quite different if she is 22). But basically, your best option is to learn as much about what her Ohio group is, and teaches, and then to read through the books Belle recommended, so as to have informed conversations with your daughter. And then be calm, and patient, and POSITIVE with her. My experience is that people have to see the corruption and error for themselves before they can "wake up" to what they've gotten involved with... some outsider (even Mom) trying to tell them they are in a bad group usually falls on deaf ears. People will not see and hear what they don't want to see and hear. And if you just push and push to try to get her to see what you see, you will only alienate her and make it harder for her to come back to you and admit you were right and she was wrong. Bottom line -- don't push her away with your concern and fervent desire to get her out of the group. Keep the lines of communication open. No judgement. Just positive advice. She'll come around!!

Skyrider..... absolutely LOVE it!!!!!!!!

Glad you guys like it. THW