TheHighWay

Excellent points, Tbone!!

Doojable... I saw that kind of thing happen over and over again. Not just with people who had artistic abilities and training, but with lots of folks. It was this unwritten rule that if someone had honed their skills in the "natural world" those skills were automatically EVIL, and went unused. And yet, at the same time, other people who had natural-world training and skills got lauded to the skies. I never understood why it was one way for some, and another way for others!!! That always bothered me!!! All I can figure, looking back, is that if they needed your skills, you were praised, and if they thought they didn't need your skills, you got ignored or even criticized for even having the skills and abilities. And think about it... when it came to assignments (WOW or Corps) people learned not to speak up about what they REALLY wanted, because they KNEW they would get something just the opposite. They shut their mouths and at least knew they had a 50-50 chance of getting assigned somewhere they liked. And if you got something you liked, you figured God was blessing you, and if you got what you hated, you figured you were getting the results of being fearful. What a bunch of hooey!! Even out on the field, there was that same double standard. When my BCs needed something artsy-craftsy done, I was the first person they called. Or when they needed some music for a special event, it was always me asked to coordinate it, even if I wasn't the performer. Okay, those were skills and trainings I had long before twi. (maybe they thought I had gained them while in-rez?) But, when the BC put out some incorrect info regarding emails, spam, and viruses, and I immediately notified him privately so he could correct himself. I didn't want him to spread wrong information and perhaps making himself look like a fool in the process! Did I get thanked. No. I got my rear end handed back to me on a platter for questioning the mini-mog!!! (never mind that I work with computers for a living and was RIGHT)

Brilliant!!!!!

Well, I find I may have to change my tune a bit on this... I just saw this morning that Will Ferrill now has a short feature out on You-Tube where he plays a tenant late on his rent, being yelled at and cussed out by his alcoholic landlord... played by a sweet little two-year-old girl !!! Sudo... I cannot argue with you over something like that. It's gross manipulation of a sweet little kid. Apparently the tot is the daughter of Ferrill's business partner, and they think its funny that she is currently at an age where she will repeat anything she is told to say, but then "can't remember it" later. Her mom stood there and coached her to say some very vulgar things over and over. Frankly, I find that kind of creepy. I guess I have a double standard about this... I'll have to think about it some more. I found the videos posted here kinda cute and mostly innocent. Whereas I find what Ferrill and company have done to be just wrong!

Here ya' go: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...on-of-self.html Catcup's "Destruction of Self" ... excellent!!!

minicorpse... Thanks so much for sharing your story! You will never know how many other lives you will impact because you did... an amazing amount of people come here and read and learn and heal, and your story tells a side we don't hear as often: the kids' point of view. I'm so sorry for what you went through, but so glad to hear you are making a great life for yourself. I hope the therapy helps you put all the crap behind you for good. THW

When you can watch "Silent Hill" and not think once about a devil spirit. When you can read "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" in one sitting and not feel guilty. When you can throw you change in the buckets of several bell-ringing-Santas in the same Christmas season and enjoy doing it. When you can rejoice with your Church-Going-Neighbor over something good that has happened in her life and not think about how it came from the wrong god. When you can walk into a room full of chairs and tables that are not set and not feel compelled to go around and straighten them.

Aw, cmon Sudo... you don't think this is really true, do you? My 52-yr-old sister pulled a "Kassie" when she was very young, repeating a swear word I'm certain she heard from my father, right in front of company when she lost control of her bouncy ball. Everyone gasped, and then they smiled. She was corrected, and my dad learned to be more careful about what he said and when. (well, for awhile anyway) And let's face it, one of the reasons "A Christmas Story" (set in the 1950's if I'm not mistaken) is such a funny movie is because so many of us can relate to the things depicted in it, including the working-class-stiff Dad who has a sailor-mouth, but everyone in the family denies it. No question HBO and DVDs and the Internet and absentee-parenting have changed the whole complexion of kids' behavior, and there are a lot of really screwed up little ones out there. But I don't get the sense from either of these videos that the adults were either horrible parents or encouraging their kids to use that kind of language. There is a big difference between a toddler accidentally stumbling on the s-word as they babble, and the woman who lives down the street from me who screams cuss words at her kids every single day as she loads them into her van. Those kids are all of six and seven and are already lawless little vandals. I wish I could get social services to care. But so far she hasn't done anything "bad" enough. Geez.

OFM, Thank God for folks like you, doing what you do!!! Thinking of you and praying and being thankful here back home. Take care of yourself. THW --PS-- cute pup! (even if she does look like a poodle right now)

Agreed, George! I didn't mean it figuratively, either. I literally started feeling queasy after typing up such garbage and realizing I had once done my darndest to comply with those standards. UUUGH.

Here are my notes from a teaching some time in the late 1980's... meaning it was part of my corps training. I kid you not... these are genuine actual notes from a teaching. And back then I took notes almost verbatim. I read them now and just can't believe I swallowed it all: hook, line, and sinker! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HUPOTASSO Hupo - a motion from the underside Tasso - to appoint; determine, or ordain... "to determine to submit" [literally] -- loving obedience by proper arrangement and deliberate decision There are 40 occurances in the New Testament of this word This is the number for probation/trial period (40 days and nights, 40 years of wandering...) A believer must prove that they can walk in submission in ALL categories of life before they can be called spiritually mature. (to grow up in Christ is to "mature"). There are no shortcuts. It takes first-hand experience to know the benefits, attacks, growth, and necessity of submission. If you don't understand these things, you cannot lead people. Who submits? According to the Bible: believers submit to God and His Word believers submit to leadership believers submit to other believers youngsters submit to elders children submit to parents wives submit to husbands devil spirits submit to believers We all submit to someone or something CONSTANTLY. (to bosses, to our physical bodies, to the laws of the land, etc.) Think of the chaos that would ensue if we didn't willingly submit. Submission is in the mind. It requires controlling your thinking to the end that it becomes your heart's desire to submit LOVINGLY (by proper arrangement). Acts 2:42 --> 1)Actions 2)Respect 3)Results! The Key to Submitting: When you are given a directive, IMMEDIATELY drive your mind to think of how it CAN be done, and not to why it cannot be done, or why it should not be done. That is negative. Ask yourself, "How can I accomplish the thing that is set before me?" WHAT IT IS NOT... Submission is not a list of "thou shalts" dictated from one person to another. It is the result of people working together to reach an agreement on the Word (being like-minded). Where is the believing if you are not like-minded? Not working on a common goal? What gets in the way of LOVING submission? FEAR! "What if the person I am submitting to is wrong?" 1) Fear is ALWAYS wrong, so you are already doing the wrong thing by going down this path. 2) See the Christ in people: expect them to get it right (pray for them daily: for your leadership, for the ministry) 3) Overseers, it is your job to believe in the Christ-in-you to get it right... you are submitting to God's Word. FEAR! "Submission is confining, binding, stifling..." 1) Growth is limited without a proper framework providing direction and support 2) Put your heart and soul into obeying and you will see the results If there IS a mistake, God will cover it... it is NOT your business; NOT your responsibility. 1st Occurance of Hupotasso: Luke 2:51 (context starts in verse 42) --> Subject to them The results are seen in v52 --> you can see how obedience brought blessings and avoided hurts. This kind of obedience starts in the physical realm when we are children. The actions are obvious. The results are obvious. It grows as we grow in Christ into the spiritual world, which is very subtle. Look where God lists disobedience to parents: Romans 1:28-32 Look at the "company" this sin keeps... the worst!! Obedience is VERY important to God. God expects obedience, not excuses. Sometimes our disobedience is due to immaturity. We mess up, but we will do better next time. Sometimes our disobedience is due to a cluttered mind. We "heard" but didn't fully listen, remember, and obey. The solution is to be quiet, to watch, to learn, and to obey next time. By always putting the Word first in our thoughts, by submitting one to another in loving obedience by proper arrangement and deliberate decision, we will experience the benefits and see growth in our lives. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, I have to go lie down now... I feel sick.

Here is the text of the cover letter sent along with the literals I have: Dear Way Corps: God bless you in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ. We are very blessed to make these literal translations according to usage of II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I/II Timothy, Titus, and Philemon available to you. As a Board of Trustees, we want you, The Way Corps, to have the most current and accurate Biblical research study aids, so that you can grow in God's Word and hold it forth more effectually. A "literal translation according to usage" is a "translation which reproduces the thoughts and meanings of the original, based on the words in the original in relation to the verse, context, remote context, and to whom it is written." An "expanded translation" is a "translation which reporduces the original with many alterante or alternative means and explanatory renderings." Our ministry is unique in that we strive to communicate the heart of the original God-breathed Word to the best of our ability. Our literal translations according to usage reflect the best research and understandnig of the verses to date. They may change as further research is done and greater insight gained. Study and make the material your own before you teach it to others. These translations will be most profitable when you can teach the how and why of the verses, not merely read them. We trust these literal translations according to usage will bless and benefit your life. We love you and stand committed with you in the outreach of God's Word over the World. In His service, (signed L. Craig Martindale, Donald E. Wierwille, Howard R. Allen) Your Board of Trustees This cover letter has no date, but the date on the literals is 1986. This means they are probably still mostly Doc Vic's literals, with maybe some tweaks by Martindale. They run 70-some pages long. As for the content of the letter itself, there is more there I could comment on than I have the energy or desire to deal with... let me just say "holy crap!"

I have VPW's "literals according to usage" of most (if not all) the Epistles. Don't even remember where they came from... University of Life? Way Corps training? Who knows. But I have them scanned into PDF form, just send me a PM and tell me where to send them.

dmiller, I would love to take credit for that particular version of Roll Away, but I learned it at Emporia (13th/15th corps in rez). Someone got bored with the standard version and taught us all the calypso version one night at supper. A few nights later came the mafia version (sung to the theme song of the Godfather) and other variations. It definately made the whole procedure a lot more fun!!

(oh, sorry... my bad!!!)

Oh, now JJ, what have you got against "Roll Away"??? (sung with a Jamaican accent:) Roooollll aWAY Oh, oh, oh OOOOOOOLLLL aWay Every burdon of me heart It roll away Every sin she got to go 'Neath the crimson flow (clean up them dishes, mon)

Part of what hooked me in twi is that I was young and naive and scared of being alone in the big, wide world. I gained great comfort in KNOWING. Knowing how things "really" worked. Having all the answers. When I walked away from twi I felt like I no longer knew ANYTHING. I no longer trusted or believed anything they had ever taught me. I knew nothing and trusted no one. That really scrambled me for awhile. I survived by just going through the motions. I got up, went to work, made supper, took care of my kid, and cried myself to sleep. That only started to change when I decided to be pro-active in my own life. First, I posted on WayDale and then Greasespot. A LOT. A lot of venting, raging, and ranting. It was my way of draining the poisen out of me... the anger, frustration and hurt of being so used and for going along with it for so long. Second, I actively sought out things that I knew would upset any loyal twi-bot. I watched John Edward's show about talking to spirits. I watched shows about UFO's and haunted houses. I watched movies they would have disapproved of, and listened to music they would have hated (really, really loud!). And I worked really hard to reinstate the use of forbidden words: create, luck, wish, Christmas!! I did this to break through the barriers they had put in place in my thinking. Then I went back to where I was before I joined the group. I joined classmates.com and looked up some old school friends. We set a date and got together in person to laugh and tell stories on each other. Connecting with them reminded me of so many things I was and wanted way back then. And lastly, I started having fun. I hadn't had genuine fun for the last several years of my twi involvement. So, I would go for a drive just to enjoy the scenery. I would call a friend on a whim and ask them to a movie or dinner. Just little things, but important, because I didn't know how to RELAX and not feel guilty for wasting time. I re-read some of my favorite novels... in ONE sitting!! It took a few years. It took a lot of grieving. But I genuinely feel that I am okay now. There are fewer and fewer things about my association with twi that bring out a deep emotional reaction any more. I can usually talk about it without getting angry now. And I can live with that.

It is a very subtle thing, the turning point when a victim becomes a victimizer. At that point they have been conditioned into overriding their own gut instincts and acting on what their abuser has taught them to do. Are they truly (soley) at fault for their behaviors after that? Or is their responsibility mitigated by the mental and emotional conditioning they've lived under for an extended period of time? This question has been asked here many times, and there is never a consensus about the answer. Just like this question gets asked in our court systems every day... it's often too simplistic to say the individual cannot be held responsible because of what they endured, and yet often too harsh to hold them completely accountable. Personally, I think the dividing line is when a person KNOWS what they are doing is wrong (especially where they have said or done things to indicate they KNOW... like Donna has, like the Moynihans have, like Craig did...) and do it anyway. Certainly many of us did things we are not proud of, but maybe we did them in all honesty and innocence, being led astray by the selfish, wicked intentions of others, or even later in an effort to "recover" what we perceive to be a good thing gone a little off track. To me, the cross-over is when you realize: there is something really not right about what's going on, and no one seems to want to change it. After that point we should each be held accountable for anything we did to aid, perpetuate, or allow what we knew to be wrong. Unfortunately, many of us did do things we should be held accountable for because we reached that point and still clung to the hope that we were wrong in our perceptions, or that things would somehow work themselves back around the right way, or we were afraid to take the steps necessary to speak up or walk away... Those things are real and unfortunate, but I don't believe they lesson our responsibility once we have reached that point of "knowing", and frankly, part of the problem in defining where someone's responsibility starts, is that there is no way someone else can tell me when I reached that point. I have to be honest enough with myself to acknowledge my own guilt and responsibility. And while that sounds easy, it often isn't. It takes a lot of courage and strength. For some, it happens quickly, and for some, it takes years. And others will never get that place and admit they were wrong, and stop supporting twi.

I don't resent any of the work I did on the campuses while in-rez... you know going in you are going to work your fanny off as part of the program. I did resent when it got to the point of doing busy work (like cleaning the windows for the second time that day... yes, we did that kind of thing, too). What a colossal waste of time!! I remember thinking, "Either give us something REAL to do, or let us go study, nap, or take a walk!" On the field, I never had it too bad... yes, we spent whole weekends on the Limb Home and the local BC's place, (painting, pulling weeds, scrubbing the place floor to ceiling) but only when they first moved in, or a few years later for a big spring cleaning thing. And, as someone said earlier, the fellowship was so good, the work was a secondary issue. It got done, and it got done well, amongst much laughter and good will. Later, when most of the joy had gone out of it, I still didn't resent doing class/meeting setups: I was corps. It was my job. But, I found out after I left twi that certain wonderful people in our area were used and abused in the ways described in this thread: babysitting for EVERY single meeting, and expected to do much more than just watch after the kids, and NEVER paid for it, and shamed when they tried to say no... makes me mad all over again just thinking about it!

I think I still have a cassette of their music... I'll look in my archives and let you know.

Oooh, man!! I had forgotten all about that one!! It was such a big deal to occassionally be given self-structured time on campus! (my gosh, what does THAT say????) But then, they decided that if they were going to give us the time, we had to be productive with that time, and were not allowed to take a nap. --- like somehow sleep wasn't productive Was it John Lynn that coined that phrase: vertical self-structured time?

Well, all I can say is: Let's have a little talk about tweetle beetles.... What do you know about tweetle beetles? WELL... when tweetle beetles fight, it's called a tweetle beetle battle. And when they battle in a puddle, it's a tweetle beetle puddle battle. AND... when tweetle beetles battle with paddles in a puddle, they call it a tweetle beetle puddle paddle battle. AND... when beetles battle beetles in a puddle paddle battle and the beetle battle puddle is a puddle in a bottle they call this a tweetle beetle bottle puddle paddle battle muddle. AND... when beetles fight these battles in a bottle with their paddles and the bottle's on a poodle and the poodle's eating noodles they call this a muddle puddle tweetle poodle beetle noodle bottle paddle battle. OR... maybe they just call it Ramen al la Coco Either way.

Let's see... the decade of prevailing started in 1990... And it's 2007 now... And that's... uh... 2000, plus 7 more years... Well, you see, a decade is ten years NOW, but back in the old testament days, it was really a lot longer, so it's okay for us to celebrate the decade of prevailing for 20-25 years or so!!!

I think it is a good question, Chas... I never thought about it before, but I don't have a clue where the wives' final resting places are...

Ditto, Rick ... we now rejoin our previous Poodle Thread...