TheHighWay

I suspect they are either working on their website, or they are just having server problems. This has happened before. Give it a day or two... Actually, I remember VPW being very upfront about his HUGE admiration for the Mills Brothers. He visited Emporia and spent a whole meeting talking about their style, their harmonies, their mannerisms, and his desire for twi to have exactly such a group. And yes, I'm sure the Victors were his idea of doing just that. I have to admit, I liked the Victors. Granted, that was back in my completely-way-brained-haze... maybe I should go back and re-listen to see if I would still like them today. But my recollection was that they were some VERY talented guys. And Way Prod back then wasn't the robot-fest that it is today. Controlled, yes, but it still allowed for the performers to have some individual personality and style. (not a lot, but some)

I'm still more interested in how she became VP... after that, the acension to the throne is fairly easy to track.

Don announced he was 'retiring' (aka taking emeritus status) because he felt it was time, yadda yadda... How many years later was it that he passed away from cancer? Did he know he had it then? I don't know. I know that Howard Allen was pushed out over Craig's bad decision to put all the corps on full-time pay. Was there some particular issue Don was dumped over? Anyone know?

Hi Katy... WELCOME!!! You will find a lot of information here. And you will find a lot of opinions here. That is what is so wonderful about this place. Probably the most important thing to realize is that everyone experienced their own twi (or offshoot): depending on which years they were involved and how long they stayed, depending on their own mental outlook and emotional vulnerability at the time, depending on how many classes and programs they involved themselves in, depending on their local and regional leadership... some came and went and still speak highly of their experiences and still believe and practice what they were taught. Others of us were badly hurt by our time with twi and now question all beliefs, and still others were used and abused horribly and suffer deeply to this day. I'm glad you are here to read and learn. And I glad you said, "hello"! THW

That would be TWI-II... the era of Craig Martindale in the 1990's. You didn't DARE speak up if you didn't want to work at an event, didn't agree with a policy, didn't think a teaching was right-on... You didn't DARE mention a weakness or need in your prayers, or let slip to your leadership that you had a problem at work, or felt 'down' sometimes and didn't know why... You didn't DARE disobey your leadership unless you were willing to have your life, your marriage, your children, and your beliefs placed under a permanent microscope, or just get booted outright... THAT is what PC ends up being... the thought police end up policing your actions as well... Can you say, "Big Brother? ... Sure, I knew you could."

So when did you see Sock's butt? Butt sock? Butt in a butt sock?

Nottawayfer, I sang with various groups and choirs at Emporia 84-85, and at HQ 88-91, including the group that was the progenitor for the Singing Ladies (REALLY sorry everyone!!). THW

I've done that before... seem to remember there are about five of me... One's a lawyer, one's an architect, one's a college athltetic coach... but I guess I'm the only cult survivor. (well, the only one of us that admits it!)

Actually, that's an excellent summation of the whole subject, in my opinion.

Nottawayfer, Any hints about who's their daddys? M*ke M*artin always sings on the flat side of a pitch. When he's singing solo it's okay, it's his style. But when he sings with others, it can really stand out. I also agree about Claudette... I saw her in action closeup at HQ, and I was really shocked. VERY full of herself. But then, I saw that same attitude in Deb Olt***** and some of the other "singing ladies" in the early 90's. Deb and company had always seemed very genuine and tender-hearted. Then I worked with them. Cold. Arrogant. Unapproachable. They were special. The rest of us were just there to make them look good, and by GOD we'd better do it!!! After that, I never wanted to do way prod at HQ again. THW

Congratulations, Raf!! All my best to you and your soon-to-be-missus. May a lifetime of joy be yours!!

What? More details please....

I don't believe the concept stayed only at the "top" of the food chain... I have talked to lots of average, non-WOW, non-Corps believers who lived through situations where either they, or the people around them, freely bed-hopped, claiming their righteousness in Christ as the supporting Biblical rationale. It may have started at the top, but like all other twi doctrines, it spread across the field in no time. "... morals of a Guinea Pig... " mrph, snort, hrmph... LOL... good one, Ham!!

I think anyone should be allowed to say almost anything. All the regulations against open speech do is cause those who THINK that way to HIDE it better. If everyone says straight out what they think, it's easier to tell who is a bigoted idiot and avoid them, or point them out to others as a bad example. And it is easier to have a frank discussion about the issues surrounding such topics... look at the Don Imus situation. He said something completely stupid, and it was OBVIOUS, and it got people talking about the right and the wrong and the what now... I think that's a very good thing.

Are they still calling it "Family Camp" ? When I staffed some of those they ate, they went to teachings, they sang, they did crafts, they played sports, and they got the chance to ride the horses up to the BLM or ride a raft down the river, they did a campfire cookout, oh and of course, devotion-with-motion. Of course, someone said they got rid of the horses, didn't they? But they might still have the jeep-bus thingies thingies. They would pile everyone in and drive them up to tall peak to overlook the valley. I vaguely remember details like watching the little tykes while mom and dad spent each morning in teachings. And tiki-torches... lots of tiki-torches... around the snackshop, along the paths for evening teachings, around the center field for sing-alongs. Honestly, if they would let me, I could probably put up with the teachings just to enjoy the rest of the activities and enjoy the mountain air and scenery.

Now you've been reading MY mind, Belle.

Okay, this much I know... Ron was in Chicago in the fall of 1981. He and the other NH guys were part of my PFAL class crew and sang to me at the last session (I was the only one who finished it). He went into the corps some time after that. I distinctly remember James, Burlen, and Ron. The fourth guy escapes my memory, but it might have been Michael. At my first ROA in 1982, I knew virtually no one but the gal who brought me, but then NH step out on the stage and I said, "I know them!" Her jaw just dropped to the floor, lol. I believe Ron was assigned to the Northeast when he graduated the corps, but I've not heard about him since he left twi. James went back to Kansas and stayed his wonderful, sweet self. Mrs. Burlen Deull once posted on the forums (years ago) but got into some heated debates with other posters and hasn't been around since.

I think it becomes up to the participant to decide which church feels comfortable to them... and how much disagreement they are willing to tolerate. I agree that all the off-shoots are from people wanting to have a church that fits them "just right", unlike the old days where you believed what you were told and went to the same church your family always attended, or you didn't and you left the church. All or none. Those were the choices. In my early days with local churches I found that those who flat-out said they agreed with their church's doctrine, no questions asked, were usually the ones who asked no questions, gave it no thought, and read their Bibles with their own pastor's interpretation happily ringing in their ears. I went from church to church, looking for that "perfect match" to what I believed doctrinally and practically. I never found it. Oddly enough, that is why I joined twi. I liked their approach to studying the Bible, and I wanted to be different than those stuffy, unthinking people that never questioned anything. Hah! I became worse than them because not only did I eventually behave exactly as they did, but I tried to force my views on everyone else. Wow, the joke was on me, wasn't it? Now, I find that I cannot be comfortable with any church or religious group for long. Not for lack of tolerance, but for a lack on my part of any really hard-set beliefs. I feel that God gave us a lot of freedom in how we choose to worship Him, and I no longer feel bound by what others tell me I must do in order to please Him. Church has lost most of its impact on me.

Doesn't this paragraph just tell you everything?

I had gotten a bachelors degree by the time I really got involved in twi but yes, I went in-rez when I was planning on going back to school to modify my career focus. There is no question that I flat-out LOST twenty years of my life by being so involved in twi. I got involved with twi in my 20's and when I left, I was in my 40's. I hadn't worked in my chosen field in all that time, so my degree was virtually worthless. I felt very much like someone just out of high school... no usable degree, no "nest egg" to fall back on, never had owned my own home, and never had purchased a new car. No network of corporate/workplace contacts. Nothing. I had to start all over!! So, yeah, it definately burned me up when they went from saying, "Who needs worldly knowledge, when you can get Biblical knowlege and practical training in the corps?" to "Isn't college a wonderful way to let your light shine and witness to the world?" just because the leadership's kids had reached that age. But by then, I had such a pile of red flags stacked up in the back of my mind, I just chucked this one on top of the heap and went about my business ignoring them all... good little twi-bot.

My son was never in-rez (born much later) but by the time he came along, this kind of teaching was prevelent on the field, as well. It was a long-standing argument with my ex --- I thought our job as parents was to teach our son how to deal with feelings as they happened: upset, fear, self-doubt, etc. He thought our job as believer parents was to somehow teach our child to OVERCOME (ie ERADICATE) those feelings from his life, as though he could somehow prevent them from happening in the first place. So, as lindyhopper says, you present the child with a very high standard for right behavior and success, then you make them feel like they are always a failure for never being able to truly reach those standards... unbelievably damaging to a small child!!

Ohhh... so this is him... Wonder why I can't find anything on him with Google?

--- Looks like a self-portait to me...

Well, while I was fortunate to have a good experience at the Rome City campus, I know it was pure MISERY for others. I'm sure the same can be said for each campus location. If horrible things happened to you there, you would easily hate the place. I guess I was amazingly fortunate -- I had no experiences that caused me to hate any of the places (some of the people... oh yeah!!! ... but not the places). Because I was at Emporia only while in the College Division, I mostly enjoyed my time, but I have friends who had a HORRIBLE time there in-rez as corps. TJ ran a very personally destructive goulag. I also know that SS was extremely hard on the folks in-rez at Gunnison during his final reign... my own encounter with him there was shocking and demeaning. Thankfully, it was very brief as I was just there to staff some family camps and then got to leave. And, then again, while I had a rough time at HQ, I have enough decent memories from some of the great people there, I don't look at the grounds with any kind of residual sense of anger or hurt. And after HQ, Rome City was downright peaceful! Mostly I look at pictures of these campuses with a sense of loss and regret... how much good could have been done, and how much hurt and waste and damage and evil resulted instead? It does my heart good to think of other groups coming in after twi and doing something useful and beneficial with the properties. Like it purges the evil and redeems them somehow...