TheHighWay

I've never tried it, but I love the idea. On the dates I've been on, it doesn't take that long to figure out if this is someone you would like to get to know better, or someone you'd like to walk away from. If it's the latter, on a conventional date you are stuck making small talk for hours, and having to graciously say "no, I don't want to see you again". Speed dating seems both practical and fun. If you do it, please let us know what you think afterward!

Cindy, Sounds like you are an amazing mom!! Your kids are very fortunate. THW

Suda, thanks for a great post!! Much to think about. I think one of the big keys to surrendering to the incremental indoctrination of twi, was how much you thought you needed their intervention in your life... I mean, I was a very insecure person. I was book-smart, and seemingly outgong, but much of that was bluff and bluster. My family and others around me had great expectations of me, which I had serious doubts I could fulfill. I felt that I needed someone's help in guiding me, helping me be better, be more self assured, be more EVERYTHING. This attitude, more than any other, is what held me to the path laid out by twi. I was afraid I couldn't do it on my own. I thought they had the answers. I was willing to trust what they told me, and deny my own thoughts, mostly out of a fear and distrust of my own judgement. Even though I had never been victimized before, I was exactly what predators look for...

Mmmm... I just don't think a lot of us realized what a horse's patootie he (and much of the leadership) was, though... We were taught that to be a strong leader (a good leader) meant you had to know the Word, and stand strong on the Word, and not give in to our (weaker) emotional side when someone was crying on our shoulder for the 50th time (like you have to be with an alcoholic... not get suckered in by your emotions, because they will play on your emotions to get off the hook and get away with their bad behaviors). Looking at it like that, yes, we wanted to be like LCM (but only what we knew of LCM from the field, which wasn't all that much.) And once you got to HQ and were in-rez corps, you were kinda committed to doing the program. It was really hard to back out even when you started seeing the red flags. And, of course, we were taught to ignore the red flags, and to blame ourselves for not understanding. We wanted to be strong leaders. We wanted to help people. But the big flaw in the twi II logic is that MOST situations, and MOST people are not "addicts"... not EVERY flaw was life-threatening, and not EVERY mistake indicated a habit-pattern, and not EVERY weakness meant the person was possessed. USUALLY the emotional, compassionate, patient response is the right one. And we were taught the exact opposite.

I think the correlation is a good one. Both these "characters" would smile sweetly in your face, and smoothly tell you there was nothing wrong, while stabbing you in the back (or cutting your hand open with a magic quill). Umbridge is better looking, though.

Skyrider... I'm right there with you... Seems like if you took PFAL and just lived on the field in VP's day, you stood a chance of having a pretty good experience with twi. If you went into the corps under VP, well... you were in for a rude shock in many respects. Perhaps one of the biggest changes under LCM is that what the corps experienced, bled out onto the field almost immediately. Every standard presented as "corps level" soon trickled down to "adv class grad" to "fellowship coordinators" to "standing grads" standards. And then even to "new grads" standards. Ridiculous!! Sometimes I wonder, if I had stopped my involvement with twi after taking PFAL, what would I believe today... probably just about everything I was taught in that class... I felt like I had been enlightened. I felt like I had been given answers I'd hoped for my whole life. I felt like I could do anything with my life, and help others do the same! Of course, I was 20 years old. And I think that's how most 20-yr-olds feel, with or without the class...

My two cents... let the ex (and whichever girlfriend/ex-wife he is on right now) alone... your daughter is seeing for herself exactly what they are made of. Painful? Tremendously!!! But if you try to "butt in" it will not help anything, and will only muddy the waters emotionally. And I do speak from some experience. I saw what verbal battles between my sister and her ex did to their kids. When he did something stupid and she told them about how stupid she thought it was, it really only hurt them more. First they sided with one, then with the other. Each way they went came with lots of anger and hurt feelings. It wasn't until they were adults that they were able to step back enough to sort it out for themselves. Whereas, if you keep your cool and just be there to support your daughter (but not vent your own hurt on her bahalf) she will have a "level-headed" environment in which she can face the hurtful truth much better. And there is no getting around that hurtful truth. I've seen my ex, and lots of my son's friends have to eventually face the fact that their dads were simply not the people they wished they were. The "showing up unannounced as a treat", the "I bought you this to make up for..." followed by the "empty promises over the phone", the "using them to manipulate the ex", the "non-answering of letters and emails", the "not showing up for important events like birthdays and graduations"... eventually the kids see the truth and deal with it. Hang in there! This, too, shall pass.

Hi Doreen, and welcome!! Before I took PFAL, I had attended various churches at different times in my life, so I was already born again. I had heard of people who didn't believe in the trinity, and that didn't think you went to heaven right after you died, but always scoffed at them until I took PFAL. And even though I am no longer a practicing Christian, and claim no set beliefs anymore, if I were, I think I would still hold on to those three biggies. One concept I would have to say was completely new to me was that of Sonship Rights. Every church I had attended was more about what we humans were doing wrong and what we needed to fix in order to stay in God's good graces. It was a real relief to me to realize that God wouldn't have made us sons if He didn't have some hope for us; some greater purpose... Come to think about it, that was one of the biggest draws to twi for me... they all seemed to positive, hopeful, cheerful, and joyful in their beliefs and practices. I had never been around Christians who were like that before. Geez, now I'm trying to remember just when that all changed? 1985-86... Vic's death, paranoia and jealousy, POP, exodus... all that. Before that was my age of innocence. ((oops, not trying to derail your topic!!!)) THW

Was the faculty lounge that room off the kitchen? Or was that something else? I just remember setting that room up with M&Ms and cookies and stuff. But it was a very large and fancy room, so it might have just been something they used for special receptions...

Hear, hear!!! I had been in the College Division and actually enjoyed it and learned a lot of Bible, History, Study Skills, etc. I expected the corps to be so much more. I expected the corps to teach me how to get to an even higher level of together-ness with my lord, and how to communicate that to others. HAH!!! Was I a dupe or what? Two years of teaching me that independent thinking was forbidden. Two years of teaching me that respect and kindness toward others was not the first thought of any great leader, but suspicion was. Two years of teaching me that the greatest leader was the one who could yell the loudest over the littlest incident. Two years of teaching me that God only answered prayers if you gave enough money, enough time, and enough loyalty to twi. Two years of teaching me watch my back, look over my shoulder, and don't reach out to those in need. Boy, how's that for christian leadership training?

Some of you spoke of signing the elevator shaft in Kipp. Wasn't there a place in Anderson Library that people signed, too? Anyone know if the signatures are still there?

How long have they been out? Is it a new thing for them? Just glad to hear it... good people!!

This is the first time I've heard that term, or that concept either. And Rosie didn't just know about Craig, she helped him. Did she do it because it was what Doc Vic taught her to do? Or did she do it because she knew she was burying Craig deeper and deeper? Or because it left her more time with Donna? Any way you look at it, it certainly worked in her favor.

No, it says we have an opinion and we are no longer afraid to express it. I don't think anyone here has declared themself a big expert... just folks firmly saying what they know and what they experienced, and not letting others talk them out of it. If that's different from what you experienced. Good for you. You were lucky. Hmm... just how did you learn this after you met him? What are you so afraid of that you resort to calling those of us who have our own stories and experiences with Doc Vic "morons"? We may not agree with yours, but we don't resort to name-calling, which I consider to be the most immature, least intelligent way in which to argue your point. If you have real points to make, please do. I appreciate hearing things here from all sides. Sometimes it reinforces what I already think, and sometimes it (((gasp))) causes me to change my thinking!!! Okay, just what constitutes a "snap judgement"? It took some of us YEARS to make a decision about VP, and for some of us (while we may be leaning one way) the verdict STILL isn't really in. We are still trying to understand a man who could be so different to so many people. Wow, almost too much here to address... you have no fear of contradiction because you KNOW the truth as other do not. Well, yippy-skippy for you, I guess. Personally, I "KNOW" that you are sadly mistaken. Which of us is right? Obviously you think you are, and well, yeah, I kinda think I am... can't we just leave it at that? Just who is on the inside? Us? You? Them? Others? Aaaaannnnnd.... the problem with trying to understand and avoid the same mistakes again iiiiissss.....???? oooh... color me scared Look, no one is looking to "teach" you anything. It is your own aggressive, up-front personality that takes what other people post here that way. The rest of us are just enjoying the freedom of being able to vent and say what we really think after YEARS of being suppressed mentally, emotionally, and spiritually by the tenets set up by the guy you think is so great. I don't KNOW why he taught what he taught, because I couldn't climb inside his head and neither could you. I'd rather SEE a sermon than HEAR one any day, and I'm sorry, but the example this man set by his own actions was so contradictory to what he taught, it is way beyond "oops, he was trying his best but goss-o-jeepers he just messed up because he's human". This man routinely preyed on the people around him. He systematically black-listed anyone who disagreed with him. He taught his highest ranking pupils to follow in his perverted footsteps. These are the documentable results of his actions. Can you say the same of your claim? This sounds like a threat. Is that really necessary? You cannot take a heated discussion without resorting to THIS?

Well, sometimes because you feel that other readers who don't know who they are dealing with need to read your response to that person, even though you know that person will not heed it in any way.

((aaahhh... D Fugit... great guy)) So, anyone know the time frames here? Fellow Laborers -- 1974 to ???? Way Homes -- ???? to ???? WOW -- ???? to 1991? 1992?

Sorry folks, I'm just now catching up on this thread: Hear, hear!!!!

Pardon my complete ignorance, but was Fellow Laborers replaced by WOW? When? Why? Keep the stories coming... I love reading them!

The Carnegie Library (Anderson) is currently owned and maintained by Emporia State University. However, as recently as a year ago, I heard from an extremely reliable source that it was expensive and burdensome for them to maintain and they were trying to find additional funding to keep it up. Here is their link: http://www.emporia.edu/libsv/universityarchives/Anderson/ Also, the National Teacher's Hall of Fame has moved as well. They leased the Wierwille Library, but sub-leased the top floor to the telecom company. The telecom company pulled out, leaving a big hole in the NTHF's budget. Here is the link about that: http://www.nthf.org/docs/nthf_now.pdf And I found some good sites with before and after pics and information: http://www.c-of-e.org/tour.php http://users.marshall.edu/~etappan/Emporia.htm

I wasn't a part of any of the group weddings, but went to some. I would love to hear some of the details of how your day and the weddings were structured. The reason I ask is that by the time they did the weddings for the 18th corps, they had each couple set up their own individual ceremony. They had to find their own minister, book their own room or space on campus (HQ) and get friends to do their own setup and take-down. I went to several different ceremonies that day. That evening, there was one big reception party under the big top. All the separate wedding cakes were displayed (I can't remember if each couple got to request what they wanted or just the colors/flavors of their cake????) I do remember assisting the gal who always made all the special cakes at HQ (she was so gifted!!!) and watching her work on the beautiful decorations that would go on each cake... I'm guessing this is quite different than what the early corps had, since I've seen pics of all the couples together with Vic or LCM at the front...

Hmmm... now you got me thinkin' again, Oldiesman... Excellent points!!

I couldn't find an emoticon of someone kissing someone else's (well, you know) so these will have to do... <_< <_< <_< <_< <_<

Bluzeman, in my experience Oldiesman rarely if ever comes right out and calls someone a liar. He just responds to their posts in a condescending, denying, snide, casually disregarding manner. And when he is called on the carpet about it, he sidesteps and raises issues with the person calling him out. He usually denies that he meant any ill will at all... To some it may not be noticable, to others it may seem just a bit off, but to anyone who has lived with an abuser of any kind, they can recognize those tactics a mile away. And it rubs them very much the wrong way. Immediately! They are being trashed, and they know it, and the person doing it thinks they are so smooth that they can get away with it. (well, frankly, I think most people who do this don't even realize that they are dong it, and so it's easy for them to deny any culpability) How dare anyone accuse Oldiesman of living in the past, seeing twi through rose-colored glasses, doubting every negative ever said about twi, or subtly slamming the one who said it? He was just asking a question, posting his own thoughts, stating his own opinion. No ill-will intended... I have nothing personally against Oldiesman, and he often brings interesting comments and information to this forum. But I believe he has a big blind spot when it comes to twi, and I've learned to read his posts with caution. That being said, I'm sure there are folks here who don't like me or what I have to say much, either. That's the beauty of this place. We all HAVE a place here.

White Dove, While I can appreciate many of your comments and arguments, at the same time, you must see that John is coming at this from his set of beliefs, just as you are coming at it from your own set of beliefs. You spend a great deal of time and thought in discussing statements about Chris Geer and what he teaches because you apparently share many of his beliefs. You bristle at some of them being challenged. But then you turn around and say: "I do question why he fails to look at the hurt caused by his own church and their doctrines like worship of a three headed God. " What a silly thing to say when you know that is part of his beliefs. Of course, he's not going to look at that because he doesn't believe it is wrong. Just like you don't believe Chris Geer is wrong in many things. Defend your own beliefs all you want. You usually do so in an intelligent way. But you certainly lessen your own credibility when you descend into what amounts to a cheap shot picking at someone else's beliefs. He has just as much right to his beliefs as you and Geer have to your own. As to John picking up his denominations dislike of The Way, I find that doubtful. I was raised Lutheran and they are very much run on a local and regional level by the synods. I think this is John's personal mission (for whatever his reasons), not a "Lutheran" thing.

There was also a storage room in the top floor of Emporia Hall. It was just for College Program folks, but some of the corps were well known to us and would use that space to "get away". We didn't blame them a bit! Oh, and my very favorite, were the upper rehearsal rooms in the back of Kenyon. They were just for way prod folks, and if you went up there when the corps was in a meeting it was very peaceful.