TheHighWay

I had a high school history class where the teacher collected all our tests (once every two weeks) and told us the grade but never let us see the corrected papers until he handed them back right before the mid-term or finals. We complained, but we just couldn't get him to understand our point of view... looking at what you got wrong right after you took the test helped you remember it better. Looking at what you got wrong weeks later had so much less impact. I think it's the same with not being able to ask a question during piffle. If you could ask when it was fresh on your mind, you could focus on why it was important and remember the details of the argument. But having to wait until the end, you kinda felt like, "oh, nevermind, it probably wasn't that important". At least, that's how I remember feeling when I looked at the handful of questions I had jotted down. I never bothered asking them.

Ain't that the truth!!! Remember, it was said of VP that he was a master of the obvious. Back then I thought that was so profound. Today, I would say "DUH!!!".

Making people wait was a great way of insuring most of the questions would get forgotten or that people would be too indoctrinated to bring them up in the end... And, of course, they told you not to take notes, so I actually saw folks get reamed over writing during a session, even though what they were writing was the questions they were told to write down and ask at the end... In addition, I saw a couple of situations where a person actually did ask questions at the end, but weren't as receptive to the answers they got as the leadership wanted, and those folks were told they were just there trying to make trouble and were escorted from the room and told they had not officially graduated from the class and were not welcome to come back! (((why didn't that wake me up at the time...????)))

Hi Lucy!! Glad you jumped in... some good thoughts there!!

Well, the concept of cleaning out old crap that serves no purpose is a good one, but like all things TWI, it was used for isolation, control, and manipulation. TWI sought uniformity among the masses. They also sought all your spare money. So, why should you keep an old military jacket hanging in your closet? It doesn't conform to Way standards, and if you sell it, you can send your ABS to TWI. It's aaaalllll goood!!! I got rid of so much stuff I now regret... geez. If your wife is truly way-brained, you are going to have a hard time convincing her to leave your stuff ALONE. Is there any way you can find a middle ground, like: Honey, I love you, so you can throw THIS stuff out, but the stuff that is in this (room, closet, boxes, shoebox) is off limits!! Don't touch it or there WILL be a divorce!!

There are a lots of policies and "ways of doing things" that had nothing to do with the Bible: 1) when craig and donna taught at family camp, suddenly EVERYONE had to listen to those teachings and you would get reproved for not doing EXACTLY what they did with their kids (including using the term "sponsies" for the little tykes, and running your college-aged kids' schedule for them!!) 2) for years we were taught that college wasn't important, it was just "worldly knowledge" and you should go WOW and Way Corps --- until Craig's kids reached college age, then all we heard was how we need folks with worldly knowledge to reach out to the unbelievers, and we got whole sermons were on how to work the system for your kids to go to college while still sending all your spare cash to twi -- and they justified it by saying that the times had changed 3) words are important, and objects carry devil spirits, so we have Uncle Harry day so you can burn and destroy devilish reading material, records, etc. --- until Timmy took a liking to the Goosebumps stories, then it was all about how you should teach your kids to know the difference between real and pretend, and use their natural interests to teach them -- I don't remember how they justified this one, but whatever it was, I wasn't buying it 4) I had a local leader who hated the smell of pine, so suddenly pine was like the devil's own scent in the area... if you used pine scented cleaners in your house and someone walked in and could smell them you were gonna catch heck for sure -- even if the leader wasn't going to set foot in your house, EVER. Didn't matter. NO PINE became the doctrine of the day. oh man, I could go on and on....

Yeah, I think that's a pretty good way of putting it: someone who uses the rules to control someone else, not out a goodness of heart but out of fear or selfishness. So, that means it isn't a question of what the rule is, but how it is applied and handled. And that, my friends, describes twi exactly! That's why there is no "one" experience... yeah, the same rules were pretty much in place nationwide, but each was applied differently, depending on who your leadership was, depending on who YOU were, depending on who else was paying attention at the time...

This has been an interesting thread. I guess I draw the line between what is and isn't legalistic by looking at the benefit of following the rules, the natural consequences of not following the rules, and then try to line those up the corresponding vigor in which those rules are enforced. In other words, the proper manner of holding a weapon in the military is a rule that is enforced with a great deal of vigor because the benefit of following it is that you will be ready to use the weapon when necessary, and because you can accidentally discharge it if you don't. Since the benefits and consequences are both life-threatening, they match the vigor with which the rule is enforced. Okay, let's look at a twi rule... arrive to a class a few minutes early so you can settle in and be ready to start class on time. I would say that's generally a good rule. It has the benefit of being mindful of everyone's time equally, and makes the most efficient use of that time. It has the natural consequence if broken that others are disturbed if you arrive late, and you may miss something that would have been good for you to hear. So, what would be the proper amount of vigor in which to enforce this rule? In some cases, it might just be a reprimand or an offer of help to make it on time next time. Or, in some cases, it may be that you are not allowed to arrive late and will therefore have to wait until the material is available again and take it then. Either way, if you know that going in, those would be (in my opinion) acceptible levels of vigor in enforcing the rule. However, what many people experienced in addition was a tongue-lashing by the leadership; insinuations about the state of their spiritual lives, or marriages, or even their minds; and threats of future consequences. Sorry, but I can't see how that in any way lines up with the benefits of following the rule, or the consequences of breaking the rule. To me, that's legalism! And no, I didn't even go into the additional factors of cause and intent because those are far more subjective, but I do think that they should be factored in (like, was I late because I ran through the drive-thru to get a coffee or was I late because my tire blew out?) and in the twi of the 90's we were taught that the reason didn't matter... late was late no matter the cause. Sorry, but enforcing a rule just because it is a rule, yeah, that's legalism too. So, I guess you could say that I define legalism as being when the punishment doesn't fit the crime, or when the response is a knee-jerk one, with little actual thought going into it.

Ditto!!

You know, I really was trying to follow this thread with an open mind, but I think Waysider has it right:

Great News!! Kinda nice that neither of you are attached to any particular church... your ceremony will be YOURS and will be nicer for it! Can't wait to hear about what you plan...

OH, oh, I know... I want a shirt that says: Once I was just a sheep, But now I'm a MAA Vet!!

Wouldn't that be "Maa Vet" ??

I agree with what has been posted so far... so much depended on your individual experience and perspective. I joined in the early 80s and saw a great deal of freedom for myself and even in the College Program, while seeing that if you were WOW or Way Corps you pretty much had someone running your life for you. Yet, I got talked into Corps and thought somehow I could make it work. I would call the 90s an earthly form of h@ll but then again, I didn't experience them as "joe believer" but as corps on the field, expected to talk the talk and walk the walk and conform to my leaderships' every whim and demand, no matter how invasive or ridiculous. But as for newbies being cut any slack in the 90s... not so much... that was the era of "we are looking for quality believers: folks who already have their lives pretty much together". (again, a completely nonsensical notion) I saw legalistic elements right from the start. But I thought they were either rare, or specific and for a good reason, or something I could fix from the inside out. --- I was wrong on all counts.

Yup, been there, done that!!

I want a "Honk if you Hate Corps Night" bumper sticker and a "MOW Vet" T-shirt please !!!!!

I love this poll. It should be interesting to see the results, if folks partake. My only comment is that the last section was hard to answer because I went through many of those things but in stages: 1) Was depressed, tried other christian religious groups, took any old job I could get just to pay the bills 2) Spent much time thinking things through, talking to friends, relatives, counselors -- got over it 3) Life became wonderful, got a great job, VERY happy with things right now But this stuff happened over the course of 6 years... is it too late for you to amend that part of the poll into 2 year segments? Now THAT would be interesting. Or, maybe another way would be "Before I found Greasepot" and "After I found Greasespot". Would that be revealing???

Good for them!! What has the world come to when an insurance agency has more moral credibility than a religious ministry? I believe that is the Belezian group. I always wondered how they were getting away with selling the PFAL materials so openly... do they have any protection being outside this country?

Holy Crap, White Dove !!!!!! That's just an amazing piece of information... all those BS rants about getting revelation from God that Doc Vic's class was out in the world, and the devil was using the cop-outs to undermine the work of the ministry... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... Once again the truth was hidden deep underneath: twi was getting pushed to hold to their word and let pfal grads retake the class no matter what... geeeeez. I keep telling myself I will NOT be surprised any more by what I might read or discover about them -- there have already been so many bombshells -- and yet here we are, and I find myself stunned at the depth of the deception. Makes me just want to scream.

I am interested but my problem has been that I forget when they are scheduled (even when they are set for a regular time each week) -- it just always seems to be when I'm not at home! I do still want to join in, though. I'll make a bigger effort. It will be my New Year's Resolution.

Oooh... someone posted this list on another thread about TWI's lawsuits. It comes from the same site linked above: Search for: "the way international" Results 1 - 20 of 20 ... August 24, 2007 Way International v. Turner et al DE Unassigned Judge Trademark Trademark Infringement Plaintiff: Way International; Defendant: Carl A. Turner, Sr., Way Ministries Inc. August 8, 2007 The Way International et al v. Executive Risk Indemnity Inc. et al OH Southern Rice Insurance Diversity-Insurance Contract Plaintiff: The Way International, The Way International, Inc.; Defendant: Executive Risk Indemnity Inc., Executive Risk Inc., Chubb & Son, Inc., Baldwin & Whitney Insurance Agency Inc, Acordia Of Ohio LLC and others... July 13, 2007 The Way International v. The Way Ministries, Inc. et al KY Western Simpson Trademark Trademark Infringement Plaintiff: The Way International, Inc.; Defendant: The Way Ministries, Inc., Charles Darnell May 12, 2006 The Way International v. Rose MD Chasanow Copyrights Copyright Infringement August 16, 2005 The Way International v. Gilmore et al TN Western McCalla Copyrights Copyright Infringement Speaks volumes, doesn't it?

Here's one: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-kyw.../case_id-62046/ And I definitely remember others. You could probably find the local newspaper articles referenced if you did a search of the Greasespot threads.

On another thread someone asked for "proof" of The Way International suing (or threatening to sue) small churches over the rights to the name "The Way" and I was googling to find it (I know I've seen articles somewhere) and ran into this: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-ohs...case_id-117294/ Anyone know why TWI is suing an Insurance carrier? The date is August 2007...

According to Martindale's class, science has discovered that the "bonds" in snow, if broken apart, would release the energy of massive bombs... Uh-huh.

I learned at my very first job that what works for one person might not work for everyone else. I shared a work space with another gal... she worked mornings and I worked evenings, and for a stretch of 2-3 hours in the middle we shared. She was my supervisor, and since she was already there when I would arrive, we would leave everything arranged "her" way as long as she was there working (and of course, I was trained with everything set up that way). But once I became fully aquainted with my duties, as soon as she would walk out th door I would rearrange the space, placing everything where I could most easily and most naturally get at things in a smoother pattern. And then I would put everything back the way it was before I left. I was far more efficient and effective doing it "my" way. Later, it was the other way around where I was the supervisor/trainer and shared space with someone else, and I made sure to let them know they did not have to leave everything arranged "my" way when they were using the space. It seems a natural thing to understand... the details didn't matter, as long as we both got the job done properly. I suspect the reason I was willing to put that knowlege aside in TWI was because we were talking about THE BIBLE, where you assume there is only one right way (well, I did because of my upbringing). I have since come to the conclusion that the Bible is full of examples of how, in order to achieve Godly results, different things were done. (well, I did see that even back then but it was put in the context of walking in revelation, and that was supposed to be done by our leadership and not us, and we all know how that went....)