TheHighWay

Before TWI I felt lost in a big world because I thought I needed to know the path of life a little before I set out on it (well, at least how the path got there and where I was supposed to be headed)... simply put, I wanted to know about God and the Bible because I was afraid of the unknown. I just don't feel that way anymore. I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God, so I simply don't worry about it. I look at the world's belief systems and see that they all say roughly the same thing about themselves (they have the truth, and God is on their side) and I know that if I discount one, I must logically discount them all. So I discount none. Because while I think spirituality is important, I think religion is bogus. But if religion helps people find their spirituality, then who am I to judge?

Excellent point!

What would Jesus say if he walked into my house today? Depends on whether he likes cats or not.

Once, when I was on mowing-duty at HQ, I was cutting around the flagpole at the auditorium with a push mower and stooped to pick up what looked like a clump of dead grass that was laying there. As I lifted the clump, several baby bunnies came zooming out of the hole and then stopped, frozen, pretending I didn't see them. Since it was all open space, nowhere for them to easily hide, and I didn't want to distress them any more than I already had, I went to another section to mow and finished the flagpole area later when they had disappeared again. But I was surprised that mama bunny had chosen such an exposed area to build her nest. Maybe the grass had been just long enough at that point that she thought she was safe. (She obviously didn't know twi's penchant for perfectly manicured lawns!)

Linda Z, I love your opinions!! Keep 'em coming!! Actully, I think it was my post that pretty much threw Vic on the fire. But I wasn't trying to say he never did anything nice without expecting something in return. It's more like, I don't believe he did something nice without there being something in it for him, even if that "something" was just a personal ego-stroke. It's clear that VP took a liking to certain people and their families and treated them differently than he treated most folks. But his kindnesses were "willy-nilly" and not at all consistent. They don't reflect (IMHO) the true being of the man. (edited for double-post)

Well, this thread gets my vote for being a "must read" for all the information and insight being shared here!!! Whew! A lot of details I never knew... And I think the people who have shared how Vic sought out those who could benefit HIM in some way (either sexually or monitarily, or because they had some influence or skill he thought he could hijack for twi) are exposing the true core of the man. He was a con artist; a really, reallly good one. And that kind of person is selfish to the extreme (to the end that it never even occurs to them that others don't also want what is best for THEM at all times), and they are a master at being whatever they need to be to get what they want. Period. In my opinion, any goodness or kindness VP showed to others was simply one more tool in his toolbox; just another means to an end that benefitted himself. I'm going to repeat something I posted on another thread because I think it is pertinent to understanding VP, and why so many of us joined twi: I know someone who fell in love, got married, and tied up her finances very quickly with a guy she thought was everything she was looking for, only to find out there wasn't a single thing he had told her about himself that had been the truth!! (not his age, his background, work history, financial history, family ties... nothing) In the time it took her to figure that out, he'd eaten through her life savings and put her deeply into debt. She divorced him. But she can't get over him. Why not? Because she can't let go of what he was like in the beginning. He was kind, caring, thoughtful, generous... and she keeps saying she doesn't understand where that man went? She really cannot bring herself to face the fact that this was just a mask hiding the real person inside -- the selfish, callous, mean, violent man she saw after they were married. She keeps looking for a REASON for the change, and will not admit that no change happened, just a lifting of the mask. And that is the hardest thing for folks to "get"... that the chances of this kind of person doing good things because it was the right thing, or the kind thing to do, is pretty slim. It just isn't within them to think that way. They know that it is a way to reel people in to their circle of influence, so they do it. But the minute they see no need to be nice, the mask comes off and the kindness is gone. Folks say there were two sides to VP... to which I say, yes: the narcicist inside and the false mask outside.

Have you ever put the contents of that dialog down in writing? (sorry if you've already covered this) I would love to read it.

Here is a pretty good article about who Lonnie was and the impact he had: http://www.ocweekly.com/features/features/...us-freak/19081/ and here's a site dedicated to him: http://www.lonniefrisbee.com/faq/

No, that flat-out IS stealing!!!

I really enjoy living in a clean, neat environment. Unfortunately, that does not describe my home most days. It's not that I don't care... its just that it is no longer my number one priority. (neither is what other people may think about it)

Yeah, I would have to say some of my most embarrassing moments were when I blindly put faith in someone or vouched for them simply because they were also members of twi. Like loaning some WOWs a set of furniture and kitchen items (dishes, glasses, etc) that I wasn't needing at the moment. At the end of the year when I went back to get my stuff, most of it had vanished. When I asked where it went they just sort of flustered about and gave me some mumbo jumbo about breakage. Yeah, cuz plastic dinnerware is SO fragile... :blink:

The sense of "knowing" how the world was layed out and the surety about what was going on around you was a BIG comfort in twi, that's for sure!! I spent a lot time the first years out (it's been eight years now, after 20 years in) wondering if I was making the right choices. But I found a lot of courage in realizing that if I made a mistake it would be MY mistake and I could live with those conseqences a lot easier than when I had to live with the consequences of OTHER PEOPLE's mistakes time and time again. And the reverse of all that security in knowledge were the threats they put on you that if you screwed up there were going to be dire spiritual consequences. Well, I have made certainly some wrong turns in the past eight years but you know what... I'm not a greasespot yet and I don't expect to be anytime soon! And the more you recognize that reality, the more comfortable and confident you will get, too.

JavaJane... I think most of us here feel your pain!!! I got through it all by: 1) knowing that while I made the mistake of trusting the wrong people, they were the ones who were/are truly messed up, not me 2) spending vast amounts of time venting (here on the boards and through emails, and just to myself in a journal) in order to explore every suppressed thought, and every bit of anger and bitterness; to ask every un-askable question, so none was left lurking inside of me 3) thinking back to right before I got in twi... what were my hobbies, pursuits, interests... who were my friends and why? It was like the twi-years were "lost" years and mentally, emotionally, professionally, I was right back where I started. Once I figured that out and embraced that fact, it was much easier to move forward again with the rest of my life. I never did go to professional therapy. I was lucky enough to get the "therapy" I needed from this group of crazies and from some very patient email buddies in particular.

Welll... that's how it worked in The Exorcist.

Seriously? Wow, it really was just a building in the middle of nowhere. Somehow I had pictured a little more being done with the surrounding property to make it more twi-like...

For those who didn't read this book as a child, here is the complete text: Three Little Kittens Three little kittens, They lost their mittens, And they began to cry, Oh mother dear, We sadly fear, That we have lost our mittens. What! Lost your mittens, You naughty kittens! Then you shall have no pie. Mee-ow, mee-ow, mee-ow, No, you shall have no pie. The three little kittens, They found their mittens, And they began to cry, Oh, mother dear, See here, see here, We have found our mittens. What! Found your mittens, You silly kittens! Then you shall have some pie. Purr-r, purr-r, purr-r, Oh, let us have some pie. The three little kittens, Put on their mittens, And soon ate up the pie; Oh, mother dear, We greatly fear, That we have soiled our mittens. What! Soiled your mittens, You naughty kittens! Then they began to sigh, Mee-ow, mee-ow, mee-ow. Then they began to sigh. The three little kittens, They washed their mittens, And hung them out to dry; Oh mother dear, Look here, look here, We have washed our mittens. What! Washed your mittens You're good little kittens But I smell a mouse close by! Hush! Hush! Hush! I smell a mouse close by. ========================================== Yup, that's devilish alright...

I don't know about VP and his brother. I do know VP and his son, Don, had periods of time where they didn't get along and weren't very good at hiding it. My year at Emporia, one of the first meetings I ever attended, Don Wierwille slammed his dad. I wish I could remember the details but it was something about policy and ended with the comment, "He's not infallible, you know." That might not seem like much but Don was a slow-spoken man of thoughtful words and it made a marked impact on me. I'm thinking it might have been about the "way corps is a calling" issue because I heard a lot of grumblings and opinions back and forth all year about that. It's just, as the newbie I was at the time, to hear the MOG's son pretty much call him a liar, intentionally, in front of an audience, I remember thinking, "all is not as it seems in wayland!" Of course, somehow that early meeting was forgotten by the end of the year when I was making plans to go into the way corps...

Promoting Biblical Understanding????? My, how the mighty have fallen. Mwaaahaaahaaahaaahaaa!!!!

I never went LEAD. It was optional during the fog years when I was in-rez. If I remember right the location used for Tinnie was once a private residence wasn't it? And I suspect it still is now. But of all the locations twi owned, that seems to be the one there are fewest pictures of, and I'm just curious exactly where it was and what it looked like... was there a single building? multiple buildings? multiple stories? a dining hall? dorms? How many staff folks stayed there? Etc... Thanks to anyone who can fill me in...

Shoot, I'm trying to remember the layout but it's all fuzzy! You walk in and the main floor and rooms off to each side, and you went up the stairs to the stacks(?) and then the dome was one more set of steps??? And I remember having some kind of small class in a room in the basement(?) Oh, someone help my poor old brain...

Mine went home with the ex, along with all the other twi-related odds and ends. I've actually seen it at his place when I've had to stop by for some kid related exchange or other. What a STUPID thing to use to collect an offering, lol.

Psalmie, I just now read through this thread and I think you made the absolutely RIGHT decision!! How was the holiday visit? THW

Waysider, that's HILARIOUS... just the different kinds of spin we used to hear!! As a side note... I saw the glass floor in '85. Don't know about before or after that, though.

Someone told me the other day that science has figured out that each person sees things slightly uniquely (color-wise) so that while we all learn to call the color of tree bark "brown" the brown I see and the brown you see could be quite different. (this is not even counting those who have some kind of color-blindness which causes them to get most things right but mix up certain colors). It does make we wonder what "God-vision" would be like? Would he see only the TRUE color that is meant to be? Or would he see in the whole spectrum of each color at once? Or is that the same thing?

Aaaaahhhh... (the light dawns)... maybe they were trying to say the publishers of Little Golden Books were sold out to the devil because they were successful and didn't give God the credit? --- waysider you are so right: "When was logic ever part of how these things were decided? "