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Bob

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Everything posted by Bob

  1. Anyone know this jerk? When did TWI disassociate themselves with him? Or did they even do that? Is he still in TWI but not clergy anymore? People like this make me sick.
  2. Sad that TWI is such a home for sexual predators, but is so even to this day. Source: Ex-minister gets 6 years for sexual assaults
  3. Unless you're looking for a learning adventure. Me: I would do it just to see if it works, but I'm weird that way.
  4. The slip-streaming sounds like more work than benifit, unless you're planning on doing multiple computers. I would download SP2 prior to your install, burn it on a CD, install XP without the PC attached to the Internet, install SP2. After SP2, run Windows Update and get the remaining patches.
  5. Why do they bother calling it an advanced class when they only handle, what they term, the basics? Gee, everyone got to dump out $1,000 to hear material they've known for years?
  6. He's looking for something. Word has it, TWI is in deep $hit again and trying to cover it up, with perfume if needed. Can anyone fill in the details?
  7. Thanks for the info on the history part. I'll try to update it later today and merge it in. I'll add a link to the "History and Overview of TWI" thread also. For the more abundant life, I do recall now that their writings did point at material abundance. Christians Should Be Prosperous comes to mind. At the same time, their live teachings did not promote this with any emphasis (that I recall, outside of "it should be this way"). Reality certaintly did not prove the writings, with most TWI'ers living at the subsistance level. Their teachings seemed to make an attempt at times to redefine abundance as being spiritual. I'll see what I can do with it. A link to a page/site that has all the plagerism documented in one place would be useful. Does one exist? If not, perhaps a thread that pulls it all together would be useful. Thank you for your comments. I really appreciate them.
  8. So your brother-in-law would have to borrow someone else's house and pay them a premium for such to remain in good standing. What a bunch of idiots TWI is. Like signing a contract to pay a monthly charge for a fixed period of time (aka, a lease) is not debt. Only in TWI's accounting world.
  9. Ah yes, the radio broadcasts. Bought Dorothy's book (required), never read it. Nothing against her, but it was hard to read anything TWI was putting out then. It was all the same thing, over and over again. Abundant life, prevailing, household, ... enough already! I don't think it is honest to claim that date as the starting of their "ministry." The first class would be more appropriate. Even better would be when Victor actually split off from his church and started his own thing. BTW: Who did Victor rip off PFAL from? From what I understand, Victor took a class somewhere in Canada, took his notes and converted it into his own class, even using the same personal examples.
  10. What is The Way? On TWI's web site, they have a whole page dedicated to describing what they are. I thought I would expand and clarify for those considering joining them. WordWide: Involving or extending throughout the entire world. TWI does not have a presence throughout the world, only a list of certain countries. Other countries have never heard of TWI. TWI counts as having a presence as long as 1 person there espouses any type of association with TWI (for instance, they subscribe to their tapes). I recall sitting in a corps meeting with Craig Martindale saying they just added Taiwan to the list of countries TWI was in. It turns out, one of their corps couple in the army got stationed there. The man immediately became the "country coordinator." They were the only 2 people in the country for TWI. When they were re-stationed elsewhere, TWI lost their presence. nondenominational: Not restricted to or associated with a religious denomination. Most people who have been involved with TWI would admit that TWI needed some restrictions imposed on them from others. Those at the top had no restrictions, allowing them to abuse people, mentally and physically, unrestrained. The sexual abuse stories, along with the Allen lawsuit, attest to this, among other things. Biblical: Being in keeping with the nature of the Bible. TWI likes to claim that their entire setup is based on the Bible, but this is their subjective interpretation of the book. There is ample evidence contrary to their claim, which is a thread of its own. Research: TWI has not had a research department in years. All those who had research skills were run off years ago. Most of their work, if it did not line up with their current doctrine, was discarded. ResearchGeek (a one-time researcher for TWI) and Catcup have several accounts of work they produced being dumped because the President of TWI didn't "agree" with it. And yes, the picture of the library on the page is their entire research library, which nobody really uses. Teaching: This they really like to do. If you decide to join TWI, you will sit in meeting, after meeting, after meeting - adnausium. It doesn't take long until you have heard everything they espouse to know and all you end up doing is hearing the same thing over and over again. And even though you have heard it a hundred times, you are "unofficially" required to attend the meetings. Fellowship: The companionship of individuals in a congenial atmosphere and on equal terms. This is a flat-out lie. True, they like to meet, but only for their "teachings" and collect your money. You are never on equal terms with anyone in TWI. There is an established hierarchy, with a known pecking-order. Someone above you in the order can and will tell you what to do, assuming his superior has granted him the permission, etc. The hierarchy is: President, Trustee, Trunk Coordinator (Country), Region Coordinator (group of states), Limb Coordinator (state), Branch Coordinator (group of "fellowships" in an area), Fellowship Coordinator (aka, Twig Coordinator), Joe Blow Fellowship attendee. Ministry: The act of serving; ministration. The only ones that gets served in TWI are those at the top of the hierarchy. Their excesses are documented elsewhere. Money flows from wherever to their "headquarters" in Ohio, where it collects. Currently, TWI is sitting on about $40 million dollars. Those that are paid staff are paid at a minimal wage. The rest work for free. You cannot be a part of TWI without donating your time and effort without any compensation. You will be helping setup meetings, helping a XXXXX coordinator move, doing endless paper work, etc. It would appear they are reaching out to those who cannot read or do not have a version of the Bible translated into their language. Outside of the obvious though, their "how to understand the Bible" is forcing their interpretation of it onto you repeatedly until you accept it out of shear exhaustion of trying to process everything they throw at you. Karl Kahler documented very well how the process works in his book, "The Cult that Snapped. A Journey Into The Way International" This is usually done via their classes where you are put on a treadmill of meetings that throw everything, including the kitchen sink, at you at once. Your brain gives up questioning any of it and accepts that TWI is an authority on the subject so it must be true. Problem is, most of it isn't. This is one of their main-stay doctrines. TWI is very fundamental in its doctrines, which means they take a literal interpretation of the Bible (as opposed to seeing it as inspired stories meant to convey a moral principle). It is their opinion of the Bible. I have yet to see a fundamental religious group that was not destructive, TWI included. If TWI ever were to run their own country, it would look very much like current Islam states -- included within it the hard-corps segments that are willing to die to rid the world of infidels. I recall Craig Martindale on several occasions saying he wanted to physically hurt another person, even kill them, and the only thing stopping him was he didn't want to go to jail. Remove this restriction, ...? Actually, they are not unique. They are exactly like every other fundamentalist group/cult, with the only distinction being their specific interpretation of certain scriptures. Everything else is the same. I wouldn't call it a "venture." Hell would be more appropriate. Decide for themselves: No. They will decide for you. You may disagree, but then you will be scolded, had the doctrine thrown at you again, and again. The door is the last option presented. When you finally decide to use the door, they will make sure to curse you on the way out. Threats of death are not uncommon. Positive framework: If you call over-analyzing the devil spirit realm and seeing it in every facet of life positive, so be it. Otherwise, it is just another lie. Doesn't begin with the answers: Covered earlier. All TWI research must fit within their current doctrine or is discarded. If the researcher insists his work is correct, then the researcher is discarded. Currently there is no official research department. not argumentative: This does not explain all the screaming, yelling, and cursing I heard sitting through their "teachings." Belittling other religions/unbelievers/ex-TWI is one of their favorite pastimes. workman of the Word of God: Whatever that means. Lifted from one of the books of Timothy. research is a right dividing: TWI is the judge and jury of the right dividing. Of course, they violate their own doctrine in this sentence. They state that it is a perfectlright cutting, yet they also teach that only God and Jesus are perfect, man can never be -- although it is man doing the right dividing. many who believe will be blessed: It is possible to obtain a state of mind within TWI where you believe you are truly "blessed." Renewing you mind, another of TWI's main-stay doctrines, is the principle involved where you convince yourself that reality is an illusion. It would be interesting to see where they lifted the last sentence from. It certainly doesn't describe TWI. There is a thread on this site that documents several errors in TWI's first doctrinal class, PFAL (used for about 30 years before being replaced with something absolutely repulsive). None of these were ever corrected by TWI, even though they were known. So much for being careful with research. For example, in the verse quoted on the "about the way" page, "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (II Timothy 3:17) TWI made a bid deal about the difference between throughly and thoroughly. If you didn't make the distinction, you weren't rightly dividing the Word. The fact of the matter is that the two words are the same. Throughly is Old English for thoroughly. One should expect to find Old English words in the King James version of the Bible and take them into account when doing your research. One should also correct one’s self when it is found you are wrong. TWI has a very difficult time admitting they are wrong (actually can’t think of an instance when they did admit wrong doing). Again, they contradict their own doctrine again. TWI teaches that sincerity is no guarantee for truth. A little picky, but they made the rules. revelation given: Another fundamentalist view of the Bible. The Bible is absolutely God's spoken word, written down verbatim by men. Of course, they never stop to look at how the Bible came to be, how it was canonized, and the results of such throughout history. If you want to study the Bible, this would be a better starting point, not starting with the assumption that the book is the perfectly preserved words of God. Of course, TWI is the authority for the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic languages. Is there anyone left there that even knows these languages without them being transliterated for them? Their founder's Greek skills were atrocious. The second President's were even worse. Never once did I hear either one of them pronounce agape (love) properly. 1942: No one is sure why this year is used as their founding. The Way was incorporated in the 60's (I think). The first PFAL class was in the late 50's (a direct rip-off of another man's class). I can't name one doctrine or event of TWI that occurred in the 40s. research being used throughout the world: This implies that colleges and universities worldwide use research proved by TWI. I'm sure they would like to believe this. The fact is, only people in TWI use their "research". Everyone else, who has happened to have even seen it, has a difficult time calling it research. Why?: Because it gives them a stream of revenue. The rest of this paragraph can be a thread of its own. I'll try to be brief. food required by man: TWI says all men are "God-hungry." This is their interpretation of the "What is the meaning of life?" question. renew his mind: Covered earlier. Very dangerous doctrine used against people within TWI. manifest the more abundant life: TWI never defines what the "more abundant life" is. Looking at their current members' manifestation of it though, it would appear to be dedicating your life to TWI in return for bread crumbs. Lack of spiritual strength: What is spiritual strength? Never defined. Bible is not understood when read: All your problems in life are due to the fact that you are not understanding the Bible when you read it. Sure. And TWI will show you how to understand it, for a price (you even have to pay to take their foundational class -- so you will take it seriously, so they say). figures of speech: Whenever TWI cannot accept something as literal in the Bible, they claim it is a figure of speech and give it another meaning. The best example of this is their interpretation of the word "fornication" in the Bible. Every teaching I ever sat in during my stay in TWI (10 years), every time this word came up in a verse they always specifically clarified it as meaning spiritual fornication, not physical. Later I learned why, because they believed they could have sex with anyone they wanted, whether married or not. They had a whole doctrine built around it and practiced it religiously (but only by the upper echelon, those below could not handle their "freedom in Christ"). Eastern customs: All of their eastern customs knowledge comes from a few books written by Dr. K.C. Pillai. You're better off just reading his books. what revelation truly is: This does not refer to the Bible book of the same name. TWI defines revelation as God communicating to man. Since that is how the Bible came to be (as they claim) then the Bible is revelation. Once you're in TWI, you find that God only talks to the upper echelon. Only occasionally does God talk to the lower people for items like finding a good parking spot. Word of advice: If someone comes to you saying God told them something, red flags and alarms should be going off and you should be on your guard -- best thing to do is get away from them. accuracy of the Word: TWI claims that the Bible is perfect and that it never contradicts itself. There are only "apparent" contradictions due to our lack of understanding. They go out of their way, including changing the meaning of simple words, to make the Bible agree with itself, and still fail. Contradictions within the Bible are numerous and well documented. Simple example, Genesis claims God made the birds from the ground (Chapter 2) in one place, and from the ocean in another (chapter 1). TWI (and other fundamentalist) can twist it in such a way to make it appear to not contradict, but you have to defy simple logic to do so. ministry provides this service and direction: TWI provides no service without a cost. The cost is your money, time, and efforts. You get very little in return, unless you are looking for someone to run your life for you. willing students: You must be willing. If you are not, nothing they "teach" you will make sense and you will argue endlessly about it. Seen it many times. Very similar to hypnotism -- you have to be willing, or someone else cannot hypnotize you (I read a study on this once and what they found is that people who prefer to keep control of their mind are the ones that cannot be hypnotized). specific instruction: Thank you for defining teaching. Of course, the teaching is geared toward integrating you into TWI for a lifetime of service. disciplines: Keyword. What they call discipline/disciples has its origins in their "research" of the Greek work doulos. It goes back to the slavery instructions in the Old Testament. When you look at it closely and compare, it is basically slavery to TWI. I don't know if there ever was a time when slavery was a good thing, or if it ever will be. I would stick with saying it is bad and avoid becoming one. Not all people want that: No one should. We are unique: No, you are not. You are the history of fundamentalism repeating itself. home fellowship: TWI runs their meetings in people's homes. They claim it is how the 1st century Christians did it so that is why they do it. Reality: it saves them money, not having to build churches everywhere. They can also move them at will, which they have done in the past, telling people to move with them or leave TWI (and risk the wrath of the Devil). Church: Ekklesia does not mean "called out." The Greek term refers to the citizens of a city and their rights to participate in government. You will never have citizen status within TWI. Short: Officially, their fellowship meetings are 45 minutes. Reality, about 1 1/2 hours before you walk out the door. "Fellowship" after the formal section of the meeting is considered required. Corps meetings were/are 3 hours long, all "teaching" with no breaks, if you rise that far in TWI. positive teaching: Again, if seeing the Devil and all his spirits everywhere is positive, well, you need help then. edification and comfort: This is TWI hiding that they practice speaking in tongues. Most people find this strange, so they don't want to be up-front about it. I'll refrain on giving my opinion of it. Prayer: Same prayers every meeting. Thank God for protecting TWI, those in TWI, etc, etc, etc. Then you can pray about your illness. Teaches what we have researched: And that is the only thing that is taught. No individuality. No coming up with your own research, even if it is correct. Usually, it is someone taking an article out of the Way Magazine, looking up additional verses on the subject, and reading them. ever seeking to teach: I have never been at a TWI teaching event where they did not collect money. This is their official definition, reprinted in every Way Magazine. followers of the Lord Jesus Christ: Not much following of Jesus is done in TWI. He is relegated to "absent" status. His main role is to make intercession for us. That's about it. If Jesus did show up at TWI's door, he probably would be sent packing. filled with and manifests: Again, hiding their speaking in tongues. Never saw any other type of manifestation in TWI. freely avails: This is more under the category of duress. If you miss a meeting, you are required to give an explanation of why, and if unacceptable, give a reason why your life is messed up to the point of allowing the adversary to rob you of your time in TWI's meeting. spiritual nurture and growth: Have no idea what this is. TWI never defines it. transformed: Brainwashed is a better word. Normally, TWI is a stickler for accuracy. Here they dropped the ball using the wrong verb tense and when TWI reads this, which they will since they monitor what is being said about them, someone is going to get "reproved" for allowing it to happen. You may think I'm being picky and exaggerating. I am not. If you are still considering joining TWI, I would suggest some professional help first. It will be cheaper and more beneficial for you in the end.
  11. Might not be funny. Depends on your perpsective or my warped sense of humor.
  12. I'll see if I can map it out: -Vic used that verse (and others) to con people into committing themselves to him, i.e. his slave corpse, -knowing Vic's sins in the fornication area, -The context of "Your life is not your own" is avoiding fornication.
  13. I think it's funny that the context of that verse is FORNICATION!
  14. Another endorsement of slavery? I highly doubt that means turning your life over to another person/group.
  15. I think the "I got mine" attitude is selfish. It also has an assumption that you got something worth keeping.
  16. I've been thinking about this lately. This idea came from Vic's doulos teachings. Vic was very misleading about this concept. In the O.T. (in which God encourages/commands slavery, buying and selling people, jew or non-jew) the rule, as taught by Vic, was "I love my master, I will not leave." He is then branded and is slave for the rest of his life. What Vic left out was: a) The 7 years was for jew slaves only, if you were a heathen, you were a slave for life (just because Mommy and Daddy couldn't afford to put food on the table so they sold you). b) If a jew slave was married at purchase time, when the 7 years were up, he could take his wife with him. c) If the jew slave had children while a slave, the children were the property of the owner. d) At the end of 7 years, if children were born during this time, required that the mother remain slave. So, a jew slave with children, at the end of 7 years had the option to leave his wife and family and be free, or be a slave the rest of his life and remain with his family. Nice choice! Also, in the O.T., slaves were considered property ("for he is his money"). The owner was pretty much free to do with them as he pleased, without penalty. They had about the same rights as live-stock. And if you honestly look at the corpse program, you may see that this is how it was run. The corpse were the property of TWI, to do with what they wanted, including dumping them on the side of the road as rubbish. One would think that the idea of treating another human being as property should have died out by now, having it's roots in barbarism. I guess not. See Exodus 21.
  17. I expect hamburgers after sitting on my bum for someone to teach me something I can't use. Once that stopped, I had no choice but to leave. :P-->
  18. Ah, I see. Now it makes sense. Blue forms and all that damn reporting back. TWI can keep 'em.
  19. Mine's shorter: "love yer neighbor as yerself" I kicked the law and prohpets out. I don't need the bums hanging around. Told them to go get a job and support themselves.
  20. I generally try to believe and let believe, so to say (at least I try to). But for me, the "sins of others" was the attention getter that said this needs further investigation. Upon examining the fragments lying on the floor of 10 wasted years in that group, a busted marriage, and kids caught in the middle -- I tried putting the pieces together and they didn't fit. At that point, the fundamental assumptions had to be called into question: A) There is a God. B) He wrote a book. C) That book exists today. After doing some not-so-slight research, it became obvious that B and C had no basis in reality and if A is true, he's never shown himself. In other words, what I found in the bath water was a scorpian. No matter how much I washed it, it still stung me. Now the bath water and the baby scorpian have been given the boot and I'm all the happier for it.
  21. The above was from the same web site.
  22. I found this article more informative:
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