Raf

Just Another F*ing Officer, you mean? Blue Thunder

John Leguizamo Ice Age Denis Leary

Just to clear something up: I don't "agree with Mike," per se. I see where Wierwille is coming from and submit that he has a point. Whether that point outweighs the points you guys raise in opposition to it is really up to each individual believer (or unbeliever) to decide (though believers are the only ones who have an actual stake in the answer). I decline to accept Mike as a frame of reference for my viewpoint here because I come to my point of view independent of his arguments. That is: I see Wierwille's point because I believe there is evidence to support it. I accept that there is also evidence to contradict it, and I can live with those contradictions because I accept contradictions as an attribute of the scriptures. Mike sees Wierwille's point because Wierwille can say the moon is made of green cheese and, as long as it was written in a PFAL collateral, Mike would accept it and dodge, distract, deny, etc if anyone told him it was objectively bulls hit. Wierwille was a con man. He saw the absent Christ in the scriptures and exploited it for his own gain. He exploited LOTS of things he saw in the scriptures for his own gain. Why should the physical absence of Christ and the future hope of his presence be any different? I accept that Mike and I are in agreement that there is a Biblical justification for the use of the term "absent Christ," but to say I "agree with Mike" is a bit misleading without the context that I still think he and Wierwille are absolutely full of solid excrement. No offense, Mike.

[quick aside: after our last interaction on this thread, Charity and I had a private chat during which I thanked her for correcting a mistake I made. The thread continued just fine without my elaborating on why I said what I did. But I didn't want anyone to think I ignored Charity after she pwned me on a discussion.]

Oooh, The last one gave it away for me

I'm thinking Maine or Vermont. Someolace that would be proud of supporting local over corporate. Naybe even too small to support a McD's. Montpelier?

I'm getting a kick out of Ghosts on CBS. Some clever writing and bread crumbs [a writer's term for comments, asides and plot points that get dismissed immediately but pay off later. Think Captain America nudging Thor's hammer in Age of Ultron, then wielding it in Endgame].

I skipped last season so i felt a little lost. Anyone got a recap?

Second movie. I'm gonna go with Iron Man 2

Up to heaven. Down from heaven. In the heavenlies. I think a full exploration of first century cosmology (which is to say, what people believed about the planet and the sky in first century Palestine) would be a fascinating thread. I think I'll do some research and post some thoughts in the Questioning Faith subforum. It's definitely off topic here (speaking as a poster, not a mod).

Not quite sure where I ever said the words "absent in his authority," because I did not. And I never said the "absent Christ" is a term you will find in scripture. Neither is "second coming" or "return." The Biblical word to describe what happens in the future is "presence," and it's spoken of as a future event. Presence as a future hope implies absent as a current reality. In any event.

There is that.

Let me agree, again, the Bible teaches exactly what you say it does. Jesus IS present in his lordship, directing the affairs of the church in Acts. But what about NOW? He's directing the affairs of church A and of church B, which go to war over belly buttons (not really, but the real disputes are just as substantive). When two churches, both directed by the lordship of the present Christ, disagree on a point of doctrine, who settles it? Church C? Church C doesn't believe in belly buttons. It's only the Word that can resolve disputes, Biblically. "Try the spirits," the Bible says. How? Against what standard? Your gut? What if your gut disagrees with another believer's gut? Listen for the still small voice? But they don't agree with each other. "The Word takes the place of the absent Christ" is the only way to resolve disagreements about the will of God. Isn't it?

Two of the characters in this classic horror movie were convinced their characters were so over-the-top that they genuinely thought they were either in a comedy or playing comic-relief characters. Both were significant (and not at all funny) antagonists to the title character. One teen character and her mother are played by a real life (then) teen and her real life mother. In the last scene of the movie, the teen screamed in such realistic terror that her mother called out the teen's real name out of concern instead of the character's. The author of the novel on which the movie is based was paid $2,500 for the rights. He eventually did better. Steven Spielberg, then little-known, used to hang around the set at the director's invitation because. The director was trying to fix him up with one of the actresses. It worked. One of the actresses in this movie (I've already brought her up twice) auditioned for the role of Princess Leia. She didn't get it. Another actor auditioned for Luke Skywalker. He didn't get it either. Maybe he lost the book of instructions on how to audition for a sci fi/fantasy role? If so, that was an error he would later correct.

A brief timeout to answer this question, which I overlooked when it was originally posted. It is correct that I put no credence in scripture as far as its truthfulness. It would be incorrect to say I don't think there is any coherent message to be found in its pages. I believe the Bible teaches what it teaches. Sometimes it's contradictory. Often it's not. But in any event, I think one can look at the Bible fairly and come to a conclusion about what it teaches, even without believing it. I believe in a very real, tangible way that the Bible teaches an absent Christ and that the Word is the only thing that takes the place of the absent Christ in a manner outside the subjective control of someone claiming to experience him. That I believe it's a bunch of hooey is rather besides the point, as OldSkool correctly noted in the remainder of the post I just quoted. To wit: [Emphasis mine] If you can't see my point scripturally, then I have failed to communicate it. If you don't agree with my point, fine by me. I'm not exactly disagreeing with yours. In doctrinal, I tend not to challenge the authority of scripture (now and then, as an aside, but not generally). This forum is trying to get at what the Bible actually teaches. That's what I tried to get at. That I don't believe it anymore has no bearing on what it teaches.

Here's the thing. We all agree that Christ is, in some way, absent. In what ways? Well, physical presence, but it would be silly to think that is all. He is also absent in his authority. If you and I have a dispute in that we think he means, we cannot go to him to resolve the dispute. So how do we resolve it? By spirit? Sure, except my spirit tells me I'm right and your spirit tells you that you're right, so how is the third person, who is neither you nor I, able to ascertain who is correctly interpreting the will of God in Christ? Easy. The Word takes the place of the absent Christ. See, that's the issue. When you list the ways in which Christ remains present, none are objective. All depend on the person interpreting his presence. And if two people disagree and one of them is wrong, the only way to know that is... The Word. Any Christ who is inconsistent with his Word is QED inaccurate. ... "God limits himself..." I find that statement to be accurate in the sense that God limits himself according to the requirements of the plot of the story being told by the author. :)

Almost forgot. The remake of Dawn of the Dead was helmed by Zack Snyder.

Apparently I was writing this but never finished it: There's broadcast and there's streaming. And there's the third basic option. Cable. Cable opens it up to A&E, AMC, FX, Freeform, TBS, TNT, ETC (which isn't a network but should be). So it's a cable show. Based on a classic movie that had official and unofficial sequels that are all fairly well known. EVERYONE has heard of the original movie. I would wager just as many have heard of the first official sequel. The rest, not so much. By the way, the original and first official sequel were both remade decades later. The director of the first remake has had a less than distinguished career. You've likely never heard of him. You've heard of the director of the sequel remake... And that's as far as I got. So if I'm not mistaken in how I phrased it, I was looking for the movies and official/unofficial sequels, which Wordwolf got right, complete with analysis. But The Walking Dead (and Fear the Walking Dead, and Walking Dead World Beyond, and at least three upcoming spinoffs) was the tv show. If you've never seen Return of the Living Dead, it is absolutely hilarious (and gory, and sick, and yuck). Anyhow, you guys can debate who goes next.

Charity, I do not believe we have been properly introduced. Quick primer: Modcat5 and I are the same person. Which account I use depends on which device I'm using at a particular time. I have a decades old reputation for refusing to accept or discard doctrines merely because of their source. As such, Wierwille apologists appreciate it when I've got his back, and his critics tend to (at the least) consider an alternative point of view when I defend him. I was the lead source of two major threads way back one, one of which reviewed The Bible Tells Me So [the Blue Book] chapter by chapter, ferreting out what I believed was right and wrong with what was taught, and Actual Errors in PFAL, a thread that demonstrated conclusively that PFAL and the other writings of Wierwille did not live up to Wierwille's own definition of what it means to be God-breathed. Mike has been in denial of it ever since. Some time ago I came to the realization that I am no longer a believer in God or Christ or any of those people. But that doesn't stop me from being able to see what the Bible actually says. So when I weigh in, by all means, have a grain of salt.

I'd like to reboot the thread, maybe make it a little less Mikish and a little more what were we talking about again? No longer having a stake in the "rightly-divided" answer opens up various avenues of exploration. I've seen you guys discussing this "absent Christ" issue for years now, and I honestly don't even remember the various things I've said about it. Is it possible, in my desire to find fault with VPW, that I hopped on the "how dare he say Christ is absent" bandwagon? It would have been easy. CES (STFI, John Lynn, Schoenheit, et al) criticized the "absent Christ" doctrine without overly criticizing Wierwille. I know I've recently said some variation of the following, and I stand by it: To some extent, Christ MUST be absent, or anticipating his return would be rather pointless. At the last supper, Jesus says do this "in remembrance" of me. You don't "remember" something that's present. You recognize it. You acknowledge it. You don't remember it. Christ must in some way be absent. But let's go a little further (as I believe some of you have). The Bible does not speak of a "return" of Christ, or a "second coming." The word translated "coming" is better translated "presence," as in, it's his presence, not his return, that is the hope of the Christian. Now you may say, same thing. And I may agree, except God (or Paul, or whoever chose the word paraousia) has a purpose for everything he says... So if your hope is in his return (Biblically, his presence), then the current state of affairs must necessarily imply, in some manner, his absence. So I don't think the "absent Christ" is unBiblical at all. It's the present Christ that needs defending, for if he is currently present, how can his presence be your hope? And yes, I understand there are ways in which he is present as well. They've been articulated effectively. The problem, as I see it, is this need to have one answer be correct and the other incorrect, when the Bible clearly teaches both. He is present with us by way of (the H)holy (S)spirit [I am not taking sides on that one]. He is present with us in prayer. He is the Word, and as such is present where his word is taught. "The Word takes the place of the absent Christ" is a problematic statement, but not because it posits an absent Christ. The Bible posits an absent Christ. "The Word takes the place of the absent Christ" is problematic because it doesn't. At least not completely. No one thing takes the place of the absent Christ. But all these things together do. The Word. The spirit. Fellowship. Prayer. Love. Mercy. The manifestation of the spirit. The fruitage of the spirit. YOU. YOU take the place of the absent Christ. Isn't God wonderful?

Anyone have any idea when the last post about The Absent Christ was?

That's the one.

Don't patronize me.

Way off

You need therapy man. This s#it isn't worth the pixels.