Raf

Oh, I agree with all that wholeheartedly. When did God promise red drapes? When did God promise that Job's children would be eradicated? When did God promise Tilly a canning factory? (Anyone ever verify that story)? Point is, yes, Wierwille often spoke about believing God. But he often spoke about believing with the same effectiveness apart from God. God was just gravy in the law of believing, not a requirement. Element 3 falls!

One last note: White Dove, it's not that I didn't agree with that part of his conclusions. It's that I didn't comment about it one way or another. Carry on.

Nope and nope. The first guess was the closest.

Except that wasn't the Devil's Advocate. It was The Usual Suspects.

White Dove, I'm afraid you've quoted me out of context. When I told Groucho he may have touched on something, I was referring to VPW as "our father in the word." I was not discussing plagiarism at all, in the slightest, and connecting those two statements was an error on your part. Understandable error, not malicious in any way, but an error nonetheless. Raf

TheEvan strikes:

If you won't set foot in a church that has a doctrine different from yours, but you view looking critically at the work of VPW as "tearing down" and "nitpicking," you might be a Wierwillite.

If the thought of VPW ripping the Catholic Church to shreds by selling books about vicious and scandalous reports of the deeds of popes past (who can't defend themselves) doesn't bother you, but reciting the horrors committed by VPW does bother you, you might be a Wierwillite.

Number 3 is not an element in Wierwille's law of believing. It's an element in the expanded and revised law of believing because too many people recognized the law of believing was an emperor with no clothes.

Groucho, I think you've touched on something significant there. If you consider Wierwille your father in the Word... If you give an argument the benefit of the doubt because it was taught by Wierwille... If the thought of Wierwille being wrong about something worries you... you might be a Wierwillite.

I don't even know where to start. "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse." The Godfather "E.T. phone home." "Be good." "I'll be right here." E.T. "May the Force Be With You" "I have a bad feeling about this." "I find your lack of faith disturbing." Star Wars "Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father." "He told me enough. He told me you killed him." "No. I am your father." The Empire Strikes Back "He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way. And that's how you'll get Capone." The Untouchables "A census taker tried to test me once. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti." Silence of the Lambs

Nope. Off track.

It is not Summer Rental. But you're on the right track.

You won't even admit an error is an error? You won't even address them?

Of course you don't see it as trying to lure me into your deception. You have deceived yourself so completely that you don't even KNOW you're lying anymore! Too true.

Why can't it be similarly? I telling you oftenly. You just be not listener. Ok, seriously: Mike, why are we even bothering? I mean really, why? You keep trying to lure me into your deception and I'm just not having it. By your fruits you are known, and what are your fruits? Arrogance, deception, delusion... come and get it? I think not. Deceive yourself all you want. You're only robbing yourself of the opportunity for real life.

Or, just maybe, it's because there is no law of believing, which allows you and VPW to be all over the map trying to define it, blissfully ignoring the contradictions inherent in the multiplicity of duplicities. You reject the simple truth in favor of your complicated table of elements.

Deception? Idolatry? A seared conscience?

It's the "law" of believing that's error. You have to become an outright contortionist to make it appear to work.

Error is complicated. VPW's law of believing is complicated. Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other...

Let the word twisting begin! How far we have moved from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Jappy Birthday Jardinero! You're one jeck of a gal!

Ok, I've been patient. The Whole Ten Yards

No one's disputing that it's an ekklesia. That's not an opinion. It's an objective fact. My movie mistakes buddies are an ekklesia too. It's just not a church. Ekklesia does not mean "church" the way we mean it in English.