Raf

It is abolutely on his gravestone.

Independence Day

Another part of the explanation could be that Satan did know about the concept of a new birth as far back as Genesis, but did not know that he would make it possible by crucifying Jesus. That seems more in line with what the verse is saying anyway. Anyway, interesting discussion. I still don't believe in an unforgivable sin after Jesus paid the price for all sin.

Yeh. Hey Sharon! It's still supposed to be your turn. You want a go, or shall totw?

Got it. Carry on.

Mike, Counterfeiting, imitating, duplicating, replicating... point is, the genuine has to exist or be known before the alternative can. Hey, Somebody, good post. And welcome. According to Wierwille, the permanence of the seed of the serpent is as permanent as holy spirit seed. That's my recollection, anyway. I'm sure Mike or What the Hey will correct me if I'm mistaken. Mike, I've always acknowledged a distinction between TVTs and what's actually written in the books. That's why the actual errors list only cites actual errors that are in the books.

Ok, guys, can you tell me how you get Bonnie and Clyde from those pics? I see Bun, and I see UncleHide... But what's with the kid? Lad, boy... Nee? Who calls kids "nee"?

To which Mike replies: Mike, I think this statement is characteristic of the reckless way you handle the things we say, the things the Bible says, and the things PFAL says. You change and twist words around all the time, and rip them out of their contexts to bolster your flawed opinion. I did not say a counterfeit must be after the fact. I said a counterfeit must be after knowledge of the fact, and that's self-evident. You cannot counterfeit something if (a) it hasn't happened, and (b) you don't know it's going to happen. Your whole "counterfeit dollar bill plans" is irrelevant to the question I asked (however, some of the other things you mentioned go directly to the point I was trying to make). I think (as you apparently do) the "new birth" was known long before the mystery was revealed, as was Christ in you (after all, Jesus explicitly mentioned that concept long before Paul). The only question is, when? When was it first made known? If it's first made known in the OT scriptures, then Satan can only counterfeit it AFTER it is revealed. Honest question: Does Wierwille write anywhere that Cain was born of the seed of the serpent? I know this as TVT ;), but I don't remember reading it anywhere, nor do I care enough to look it up (because I think Wierwille got that whole concept wrong to begin with).

Oh, Grow a sense of humor, both of yas. Finding an ACTUAL error can be a great thing too. I means that you're ACTUALLY out of your friggin skull if you think this is the re-issued new and improved testament. :)

To find and correct actual errors... :)

Good point. If the new birth was part of the mystery, and the mystery was not known before it was revealed to Paul, then how is it Satan managed to counterfeit it centuries before he knew about it? Very interesting indeed.

I'm going to jump in here with an easy one that was just on my mind. Forgive me, Sharon. "Never stop fighting til the fight is done."

Hey guys. If you haven't been to the Name that Flick thread in the Greasespot Gallery and Reading Room, I invite you there. We use movie quotes and try to get people to guess the movie. It's fun. "I see dead people." The Sixth Sense "Was she worth it?" "Worth dying for." Robin Hood" Prince of Thieves "You've got me? Who's got you?" Superman "General, would you care to step outside?" Superman II "Yo, Adrian! I did it!" Rocky II "There's a peace that is only to be found on the other side of war. If that battle should come, I will fight it!" "And I!" "And I!" First Knight "Carpe Diem. Sieze the day. Make your lives extraordinary." Dead Poets Society I was going to use another one, but I think I'll save it for the game...

Because it says so, right on the pic. And check out the outfit on that floozy.

That's very nice, Eagle. But please let me be clear: they MUST choose three finalists, but there's no way on earth we'll win the breaking news category. This is New Orleans' year, and I surrender. Making the finalist list two years in a row is reward in itself. The other two categories are different, and I truly hope the investigative team wins it.

This year's finalists for that annual newspaper prize thingy. Please note the investigative reporting (I had nothing to do with that), breaking news (I was an editor, one of many, on that) and the Feature Photography categories (naturally, I had nothing to do with that). I'm a realist, so I'm not expecting to be celebrating come April. Let's see: Fort Lauderdale's paper and Hurricane Wilma is up against New Orleans' paper and Hurricane Katrina. Oh yeah, it's gonna be a close one. Yeh right. But to be nominated again. :)

I don't have a problem with apocryphal stories being told to make a point, and I don't always think you need a "this didn't REALLY happen, but I'm just using this illustration" to do it. Were Jesus' parables understood to be strictly illustrative? I don't see any disclaimers on his stories, but I never figured on these things actually having taken place. A little discernment on the part of the reader/listener is called for.

Tom is right; it's not evidence at all. A picture and a person would qualify as proof, but we have neither the picture nor the person. And the person, being dead, can't answer basic questions about what she said, what she meant when she said it, and whether her words were correctly interpreted by the hearer. Further, you can't ask the person whether she's telling what she personally witnessed or what her proven liar husband told her. I'm not saying it shouldn't be believed. I am saying that no judge in his right mind would allow this evidence in a courtroom.

Welcome, Clifhanger. Umm... interesting first post. I wonder what you'll think after you've been around a while. :)

Mrs. Wierwille is not available for cross-examination. I would not consider her a credible witness, for various reasons. Did she actually witness it, or did VPW tell her, "that's the man I healed"? And if she is claiming to have witnessed it, is that claim credible? I don't know if this event happened or not. If it happened, to God be the glory. If it didn't... I don't give a rat's mass. It would just be another in a long line of self-promoting Wierwillian inventions.

I doubt Wierwille made it up. Original thoughts weren't exactly his forte. It's a gag he heard or read somewhere, and whether he read it in an actual newspaper clipping, a homiletic joke book, or an old piece of literature, it falls square into the category of teaching devices. It doesn't need to be true: it only needs to illustrate a point. The snowstorm LIE, though, was something else entirely. That was a LIE. See, there, he LIED about something. It was an UNTRUTH, see, and that's what makes it different. See, he tried to pass it off as not only true, but as evidence of his extraordinary calling, even though it was a LIE, just like the other snowstorm he LIED about.

Is that dialogue from Sybil?

Las Vegas IS Sin City! Rhino's up!

Las Vegas, The Movie.