Raf

Kit, As you may or may not suspect, your second point was why I started this thread. So let me ask this: insofar as one may say "For my part, I forgive LCM and VPW for what they did to the church," what's the practical application of it? Does it mean we no longer mention what they did? And I'm not talking about the restoration of fellowship: I think it would be unwise if, having unilaterally forgiven LCM for his actions, I were to attend a church where he was the leader. Let's take LCM out of this and talk instead about Pastor Dave, a real person who was the pastor at a large South Florida church. I've written about him before. Here's a guy who ran a church but had an affair with a parishioner and divorced his wife. Then he went out and started another church. Ok, so I forgive him for what he did to the church. But I'm not going to his new church. And if I talk to anyone from his new church or his old church and that subject comes up, I think it's fair to say I don't like what he did and I'm not going to support him in it. So have I truly forgiven if I haven't forgotten?

Sigh.

Winona Ryder Beetlejuice Geena Davis

Roy, Are you suggesting that you have the right to forgive someone for what that person does to me? Do i even get a vote? When you say "forgiveness is always appropriate," I think it's a great sentiment. But if you think it through, that sentiment is extremely presumptuous and arrogant. Who am I to forgive someone for the wrong they've done to someone else? Am I off base?

Yep.

"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left. No reason, no conscience, no understanding; even the most rudimentary sense of life or death, good or evil, right or wrong. I met this six-year-old child, with this blank, pale, emotionless face and, the blackest eyes... the devil's eyes. I spent eight years trying to reach him, and then another seven trying to keep him locked up because I realized what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply... evil." Note: There are no missing words here. The "..."s represent pauses.

cman, What does that verse tell you? How does it relate to my questions? I'm not asking to argue. I just mean I want to know what you think in relation to the question I posed. I'm familiar with the verse, but it doesn't answer the questions. It only restates what I said: the Christ had the authority to forgive sin.

This comes up quite a bit and I was hoping people could offer a Biblical perspective on it. When is forgiveness appropriate? In my reading, I've concluded that it is appropriate in several different ways and times, but I'm not sure I've nailed a solid answer. I don't have verses handy, so forgive me for speaking off the top of my head, but here's what I see: You can forgive someone for wronging you. You do not have to wait until they apologize, but their apology or lack thereof does have practical implications. It is difficult, thought not impossible, for genuine fellowship to be restored between two people when a recognition of wrongs done has not taken place, and it is difficult for such fellowship to be restored when, following that recognition and apology, forgiveness has not taken place. But you CAN forgive without the apology (that is, you no longer hold the wrongdoing in your heart as an active barrier to that fellowship). You can be delegated to forgive someone for wronging someone else. When Jesus Christ forgave sins, people murmured that only God has the right to forgive sins. His response was that God gave him the authority, so Christ was empowered to do it. I have no right to firgive someone for hurting you. But do we Christians have the right to forgive someone for hurting God? That is, can we forgive sin? I don't know. I've got an idea, but it's not studied. Your thoughts?

Oh, all right: History of the World Part I.

Clever.

Clever.

What's this crap?

Jim Carrey Batman Forever Tommy Lee Jones

Sam Elliott Tombstone Bill Paxton

Cameron Diaz There's Something About Mary Matt Dillon

George, you've actually seen this and don't remember it. Actually, I just can't imagine you HAVEN'T seen it.

Yeah, wow! Zowie! Pow! Kazaam! Oof!

Oh that's sad. Go see the first Rocky. You missed out on a truly great film.

Mark, Looks like you spent some time under VF's group. Am I right? I only ask because I spent some time there too, and I see a lot of similarities.

And you would be correct. People don't remember how genuinely well-written Rocky was.

It is not. This movie is so obvious you're missing it. Must be figuring I couldn't possibly be quoting something THAT easy, when I am.

Revised the second quote to the point it's now a giveaway. "Hey, where's your hat?' "I love you." "I love you." ***** "I been comin' here for six years, and for six years ya been stickin' it to me, an' I wanna know how come!" "Ya don't wanna know!" "I wanna know how come!" "Ya wanna know?" "I WANNA KNOW HOW!" "OK, I'm gonna tell ya! You had the talent to become a good fighter, but instead of that, you become a legbreaker to some cheap, second rate loanshark!" "It's a living!" "It's a waste of life! ***** "You put my stuff on skid row? I been in that locker six years; you put my stuff in a bag on skid row?" ***** "What is keeping him up Bill, I dont know."

Don't laugh. My name was on the storm list last year. If it had been two years earlier, it would have been Hurricane Rafael instead of Hurricane Rita.

it's even bad down here!

"Hey, where's your hat?' "I love you." "I love you." ***** "It's a living!" "It's a waste of life!