Raf

Yeah. For years I was in the "so what" crowd, and to a large extent (this will shock many) I still am. I think what he did was dishonest and self-promoting, but I have for so long separated what was taught from who taught it that the undeniable fact of his plagiarism doesn't make me lose much sleep. Truth is truth, error is error, and the works published under his name contained both. In seeking to be a better Christian, I read a bunch of stuff and I try to discern prayerfully what fits and what doesn't. I question, I debate, I discuss: I try to learn. But I pay little attention to authorship until and unless it becomes an issue; then I try to follow Biblical directives to watch out for "wolves on sheeps' clothing." Was Wierwille a wolf in sheeps' clothing (no offense intended toward wolves)? Yup. I think his behavior proved that. I admire some of the clothing, though. Prove all things. Hold fast to that which is good. I know I read that somewhere. :)

Ayup.

Nope. Okay, let's make it easy: "Who does this guy think he is, Ferris Bueller?"

Cool. Coolness.

Is this The Office? Nah, too late. Drew Carey?

Nah. Just the worst movie ever (according to people who never saw The Adjuster. Or Traxx).

What inadvertent? Casual, maybe, but not inadvertent. Mike, come on back. Say whatever you want. You won't hear me arguing with you anymore. I think you and I have made our opposition to each other clear.

Can't argue for why. I don't know why. I can speculate: it certainly makes him look better if he wrote all he claimed to write. He slapped his name on the covers of the books. He copyrighted them. He was certainly concerned about taking credit. Why he was not as concerned about properly giving credit is beyond me. The BEST I can say is he was sloppy. The worst? Well, I don't need to judge him. He plagiarized. Period. Does it matter? That's up to the individual.

To my way of thinking, and I've run out of patience for disagreement on this, sorry, there are only two approaches to VPW's plagiarism: 1. He did it and it affects my opinion of him with regard to his honesty and integrity. OR 2. He did it and I don't care because the content is more important than the source (the God-told-him-to-plagiarize-because-it-was-HIS-word crowd falls into this category). Any viewpoint that starts with "he didn't plagiarize" stems from ignorance or denial, for the fact of his plagiarism is as indisputable as the fact of my present ability to breathe. The single most explicit example of plagiarism that I have found in VPW's writing is in RTHST, the chapter with frequently asked questions (I forget the title of the chapter). His Question 8 and the answer are so close to JE Stiles Question 8 and answer that the plagiarism is simply inescapable. I doubt very highly that Wierwille ever referred to anyone as a "faith blaster" for believing one could receive a "false tongue." It's just not a term Wierwille would use. It's inconsistent with his presentation on faith and believing: he would have referred to those people as "believing blasters." Yet there it is, Wierwille calling those people the exact same thing Stiles called such people! Hmm... and look around at the context. Stiles says: "When people ask that question, we know that they have somewhere come in contact with one of these 'faith blasters' who go about making statements which have no foundation in Scripture." While Wierwille says: "When people ask that question, I know that they have somewhere come in contact with one of these faith blasters who go about making statements which have no foundation in Scripture." Wierwille didn't even have the decency to fix Stiles's bad grammar (it should be "statements that," not "statements which"). There is a big difference between two people teaching the same thing and one person lifting another's words. Yes, there is such a thing as accidental plagiarism, where you forget you read something somewhere and you write it down as though you yourself just had a brilliant thought, not remembering its source. Wierwille's plagiarism was far too rampant to dismiss on this basis. He plagiarized routinely. I spotted one chapter in Order My Steps In Thy Word in which Wierwille flagrantly plagiarizes E.W. Kenyon, then properly cites Kenyon for a very lengthy quote. I would refer to Wierwille as a reckless plagiarist. He did it so routinely that it didn't matter to him that the words "By Victor Paul Wierwille" on the covers of his books were meaningless. JCOPS, JCING and JCOP all proved that Wierwille could cite his sources and not ruin the flow of his books or cause confusion for his readers. His other books all proved that he either didn't care or deliberately chose to take credit for the observations and conclusions of other writers. I think there were clear instances of both (deliberate choice with regards to Bullinger, reckless disregard with regards to much of Kenyon). If this influences your opinion of Wierwille as a teacher and as a walking Christian, so be it. If you couldn't care less, I can't make you care, so, so be it. But if you can honestly look me in the eye and tell me this man was not a plagiarist, the only thing you've done is prove to me that you are ignorant to the meaning of plagiarism or in intentional denial about your hero's infraction. It ain't a matter of whether or not he plagiarized. It's only a matter of whether or not you care. IMHO.

You're right. It is ludicrous. He also destroyed his own life. Thanks for clarifying! MIKE! Welcome back, man!

First, let me apologize. That post of mine wasn't a post. It was a puke. I just need to relax, take a valium or something. Will post more later. But lone Wolf, if you're as reasonable as you appear, then my post was uncalled for and I'm sorry. I'm going to go wash my mouth out with soap now. :)

VPW didn't steal anyone's ideas/words/etc. The moon is made of green cheese. The moon landing was a hoax. Elvis lives. The Holocaust didn't happen. The Earth is flat. Black is white. Up is down. I'm tired of trying to establish the obvious to MOG-worshippers who refuse to open their eyes. If you want to say "so what," then say it. But to deny what Wierwille did is to go from lack of concern to lack of discernment. P.S. Full Circle, look a little more carefully at Mr. P's post. You directed your comment to the wrong person. :)

And since I KNOW I'm right and will go on vacation after this, I'll leave you with a fairly easy one. "It sounds like Uncle Jesse and Aunt Becky just want some privacy." "What's privacy?" "It means they want to spend time together alone." "What are they doing in there?" "They're, uh... they're doing their taxes." "Are they going to do their taxes every night?" "For the first couple of months."

Ah, but you left one out. First of all, would Danny ever tell that to his kid? I don't think so. Roseanne, on the other hand...

Sorry. Another one of my business trips. You are correct.

Sarah Jessica Parker Failure to Launch Matthew McCouhgnehiwystadjjotdpdsfasdey or whatever the hell his name is.

"From what I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.N.C.E has gathered, it would be 9/11 times 100. " "9/11 times a hundred? Jesus, that's... " "Yes, 91,100. " "Basically, all the worst parts of the bible." *** "Your plan will fail! You'll never keep the world leaders distracted here for 9 hours!" "Oh no? I've got Arec Barrwin! " "Dear God!"

Oh, all right: You've Got Mail

WordWolf, If you had AOL, I would send you an e-mail with the title to this movie.

WordWolf, You may be correct about Old Dan Tucker, but not about the other quotes. Ca Dreaming's got it. Those quotes are from Little House, and Old Dan Tucker was a favorite little ditty of Mr. Edwards. "The closer you are to God, the more likely He is to listen." Laura prays for her newborn brother, who dies anyway. Rev. Alden tells her the above, and she decides to take it literally and climbs a mountain, where she meets up with Ernest Borgnine. *** "My friends call me Manny." "Nice to meet you... Manly." Laura meets the man she will eventually marry, Almonzo Wilder, and promptly botches his nickname. From then on, she, and only she, is allowed to call him Manly. He settles on calling her Beth. *** "Combed his hair with a wagon wheel." Part of the Old Dan Tucker lyric.

Old Dan Tucker was a fine old man washed his face in a frying pan combed his hair with a wagon wheel died with a toothache in his heel. Get out the way for Old Dan Tucker He's too late to get his supper Supper's over and dinner's cookin' Old Dan Tucker just stands there lookin...

Except you screwed up the Underpants Gnomes. it was PHASE one, two and three. Hey, what's phase two?!?!? ohmygodtheykilledkenny. youbastards. Listen, we've got to understand business. can you help us? "The closer you are to God, the more likely He is to listen." *** "My friends call me Manny." "Nice to meet you... Manly." *** "Combed his hair with a wagon wheel."

Nope. I haven't checked in on this thread. If I had, I'd have said South Park after the first clue.

This is good. I don't know the last pic, but I bet I can guess his name rhymes with No.

Someone grab this for me. Too busy at home today.