Raf

Geisha posted this one in the I Corinthians thread. I thought it would be worth putting up here. http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/articles/giftoftongues.html

I think this game is... not catching on. ;) My Fair Lady and the Tramp

Nope.

"What I mean by that, sir, is if you was to put me and this here sniper rifle anywhere up to and including one mile from Adolf Hitler... with a clean line of sight... Pack your bags, fellas. War's over. Amen."

Lisa Kudrow Romy and Michelle's High School Reunion Mira Sorvino

The integrity of God's word is unaffected by my willingness to lie for it. My belief casts no judgment on the integrity of the Bible or its authorship by Paul, Moses, Luke or God. It is about the integrity of Wierwille's interpretation and instruction, which is fair game. If questioning a teacher's doctrine and methods is not fair game, Wierwille would have had no career. Except maybe as a basketball player.

"Doctor" knew they would criticize the manifestations because he knew he was faking it and teaching us to do likewise. It doesn't take a prophet to make that prediction. I knew my position would be greeted with defensiveness and recitation of PFAL buzzwords and propaganda. That wasn't God giving me a vision of the future. It's common sense. Continuing to engage in free vocalization as part of your prayer life is between you and God. It's not what's described in Acts and Corinthians. We know this because it is producing something else. Claiming the benefit of SIT while faking it is like paying for a pack of gum with a counterfeit $100 bill and looking forward to chewing it and pocketing the $99 change you'll get back from the cashier. You go ahead and do that. None of my business.

No, the congregation can look at it and say "this is nuts," and walk away. The child cannot. The adults responsible for this poor kid's maturity and personal growth are morphing him into a parody of what they want him to be. They should be ashamed of themselves. And if this makes me judgmental, so be it. Getting a little tired of suspending good sense for fear of violating some ridiculous rule against exercising sound judgment anyway.

Bounty Mel Gibson What Women Want

Geisha, please post that link in the SIT Online Reading Room! It's in doctrinal.

I'll keep this brief, since it's off-topic. James "The Amazing" Randi is a small fellow, surprisingly small, and quite frail looking. But sharp as a tack! His wit is extraordinary. He does these meetings once a month that are not much more than an intimate gathering of fans and a look ahead at local events he's involved with. They're all of an atheist bent, for sure, but for anyone who loves science, they're pretty interesting. On Wednesday night, he spent a good deal of time going over some old pictures in an album he brought along. He also performed an interesting card trick. I'll make that brief: he got one of his fans to place a deck of cards in two even piles, one by one, alternating at random intervals (two on this side, three on that, one on this side, one on that, two on this, etc.). When it was over, one side contained all the red cards, the other all the black. Tadaaaa! I have no idea how he did it. Must have been magic.

Green Lantern

Yes

Yup

I am sorry I ever trusted that evil accomplice

Met Randi tonight. More later

Incidentally, I don't think Vern Poythress' paper can rightly be called a "scientific study," seeing as he doesn't appear to be doing the research himself or interpreting his findings. Looks more like he's reviewing other studies and interpreting them from a non-judgmental theological framework (which, when you think about it, would explain why he sounds like Samarin when he sticks to observable facts but more like you guys when he gets into the theological implications). In that light, it's unfair for me to have called him "laughably biased." A biased writer of such a work would have been judgmental and declared this all a bunch of hooey.

Ok, so, seeing no objections, I will step firmly on Human toes... Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.

Inspirational versus revelation is a Wierwillian distinction, not a Biblical one. Nonetheless, it sounds like what's being described is: SIT as taught by TWI will look, sound and feel exactly the same as free vocalization (which, I think it's been firmly established, any child or atheist can do). Ok, so it looks like a duck, walks like a duck... Everything else I'm thinking, I've already said.

:) That was flipping funny.

True. The only thing the new description adds to the previously cited one is the comforting "that's just the devil trying to talk you out of it" that I described earlier. The quote I just cited, I have to say, is rich in content, and I say this without judgment as to whether it proves one side or another. It does neither. But in presenting it here, the best I can say is that I have not done it justice, citing it for such a limited purpose.

LOL. Thanks for understanding, Socks. I don't know what happened in that room in Northern California. I suspect. You suspect. Our suspects are suspect, at least to each other. Stalemate. In other news, (I should never have promised not to spur this thread along, but sue me), I came across this description this afternoon. I don't want to mischaracterize it, but I'll let you guys (paging chockfull) be the judge: http://www.frame-poythress.org/linguistic-and-sociological-analyses-of-modern-tongues-speaking-their-contributions-and-limitations/ Can I get an amen and a HS (and I don't mean Hholy Sspirit)? This paragraph is deeeeep in Rev. Vern's paper, and it's strictly hypothetical. I THINK (please check me on this) Vern is in the middle of a discourse that presumes, for the sake of argument, that SIT died out with the apostles and everyone doing it today is free vocalizing. Even assuming such, it is possible to tell the [presumed] truth in such a way that you're basically being an a-hole and helping no one, Vern seems to be saying to me. Thoughts? (I'm not quoting Vern here to prove my point or raise a new line of "argument," but rather to point out the startling similarity between a hypothetical well-intentioned but erring coach and the very real erring VPW. In other words, given the opportunity to invent a Biblically inaccurate charlatan to coach a believer into free vocalization while calling it speaking in tongues, Vern "invented" Victor Paul Wierwille, right down to the word choice. Amen and HS). (In case you didn't catch it, my acronym of HS = Divine Solid Excrement).

Yes, but I could see where Corinthians might lead one to believe that the language produced might not be known of men. I do not accept that interpretation, but I have to concede that interpretation's existence and allow for the fact that some people may hold it.

I remember at least once posting about what I called "The Epistle of Chris Geer to the Americans." I remember people being astonished that Geer would have the arrogance and gall to write an epistle. I owe Geer an apology in that regard, as the use of the word "epistle" was my choice, not his, and epistle is, after all, just another word for "letter." So Chris Geer wrote a letter to Americans shortly after the 1989 schism. That letter is posted on GS, and has been for a while. I don't know that I ever acknowledged that this letter was the very document I referred to as "The Epistle of Chris Geer to the Americans." In any event, and for what it's worth, enjoy. Or don't. ;) http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/waydale/waydale-miscellaneous/chris-geer-explains-what-happened-in-the-way-via-his-considerations-newsletter.html