Raf

Ok, Title Police Get Lost means the second movie in the clue will be the first in the answer. Peter Pan So you need a movie that starts with the word Pan. Without even knowing the plot, I'd guess Peter Pan's Labyrinth

I know, right?

Doh! Good move. Nope. Not strike 3. You struck US out. Mea culpa. You won Greasespot with that one.

The Blue Book review was independent of Mike and stemmed from Jerry Barrax' effort to deconstruct PFAL. The notion that PFAL was a sort of "new and improved testament" was unique to Mike. The Actual Errors in PFAL thread came from that. For those who have been around that long and are interested in my progression toward unbelief: Jerry Barrax introduced to our forums the notion that James and Galatians are SO at odds that James ought to be removed from the Bible. I took the traditional approach and tried to reconcile the two books. Behind the scenes (although I never admitted it publicly), I realized that James and Galatians were indeed at odds to the extent that apologetics could not truly reconcile them. The writers of those two epistles simply talked past each other, using the same terms to refer to different ideas -- both correct in their own contexts, but ultimately not reconcilable. It was then, very early on, that I lost the belief that the Bible was without contradiction. I preferred the term "paradox," as it allowed me to accept both views as long as I compartmentalized them. It was Mike who, in criticizing my Actual Errors effort, first said that a similar approach to the Bible would yield a similar result. I batted his argument away by focusing on PFAL, because if PFAL is "God's Word," it must have the qualities ascribed to God's Word by PFAL. That is, it must be without error or contradiction. But Wierwille's books did have errors and contradictions. I only highlighted those things that you could not argue out of by claiming doctrinal differences. I was rather nitpicky when it came to that, but there was a purpose. I never intended to argue that these were the only errors in PFAL. Rather, I was arguing that these were errors you could not talk your way out of no matter what your theological beliefs. And I was right. The list still holds up pretty much. But what I did not reveal, again, was the effect this had on my study and understanding of the Bible itself. It didn't hold up. It had errors. It had contradictions. In this sub-forum, I have barely scratched the surface of the errors and contradictions of the Bible (not apparent errors and contradictions, but actual errors). It was many years before I would say that publicly ("many" being a relative term). I think about 80 percent of the Greasespot rules stem from how badly I berated Mike. He deserved better than that. But he was still as wrong as a human being can be, and his defense of Wierwille's evil was morally sickening. Whatever. The Mike wars were fascinating. If it happened today, there would be no war. Just a LOT of laughter.

Here's the original post, with some up-to-date thoughts. I was a Jehovah's Witness early in life, and I believe that is the experience being described here. It conforms to my memory. I'm not going to argue with this interpretation of the Old Testament. However, while I have made some of my points of contention with the Old Testament fairly clear on other threads, I am not sure I see the same things Refiner is describing here. Yes, God does order mass murder in the Bible. I'm just not sure it fits the description being given here. Some chapters and verses would have helped the argument. I thought He did. ?? Yeah, those are two well known events in the Bible. I struggled with the death of David's first son with Bathsheba. I justified it in my mind by observing that God never promised health to that baby, and that David kind of brought it on himself. (Yeah, but David's not the one who died). This is a strange comment coming from a former Jehovah's Witness (which Refiner was) speaking to a group of ex-TWI people (which we were/are). But ok. I mean, really, strip the trinity out of the sentence, and it still makes sense. It's not like Jesus said "I distance myself from some of the things my Father did when he got hot-headed."

Two points. 1. I apologize for not reading through your post and failing to see that you alredy noted how old the thread was. 2. I do not see how Refiner was treated nicer than you were. I got you signed in here when there was no way for people to just sign in anymore, and Refiner was run out of this site on a rail. You have no idea. Priscilla, not so much, because she just got bored with us real quick. I am embarrassed at my behavior on this thread. And don't get me started on the Mike wars (don't ask).

I'm going to move this topic to "Questioning Faith," because it is naturally at home there.

The last post on this thread was eleven years ago. Suffice it to say, MY position has changed since then.

I repeat: Only in this movie, the art in question is the written word, and he doesn't imply he had anything to do with his superior rival's death. Finding Forrester it is. And for those paying attention, I was contrasting Finding Forrester with Amadeus.

Yes. Jackie Cooper and Laurence Fishburne were my next clues (after checking the spelling of the latter)

Lane Smith

No. While the more acclaimed writer was based on a real person, loosely, the movie's characters are fictional.

F. Murray Abraham again plays a creative type again who is not as acclaimed as one of his contemporaries again. Only in this movie, the art in question is the written word, and he doesn't imply he had anything to do with his superior rival's death.

Oops.

No. And I'm kicking myself because I could have used this song in the Rock/Roll thread. Hypodermics on the shores, China's under martial law, Rock and Roller Cola wars, I can't take it anymore

That is a lyric, not a mash-up. Wheel of Fortune. Sally Ride. Heavy Metal. Suicide. Foreign debts. Homeless vets. AIDS. Crack. Bernie Goetz.

L.A. Confidential "I am Connor MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod. I was born in 1518 in the village of Glenfinnan on the shores of Loch Shiel. And I am immortal."

Buddy Holly. Ben-Hur. Space Monkey. Mafia. Hula hoops. Castro.

You know what they say: toughest is the new easiest.

Wild Thing (Tone Loc)

Awesome!

Edward Asner Ray Wise Frank Langella

I would have to guess Bruce Banner and expect most of those names to be voice actors in cartoons.

I doubt it. He's too good for us. And the slavery apologetic is rather common. It's telling that he ignores female slaves and foreign slaves from his discussion, as well as the notion of children born into slavery through no fault of their own, being kept by the slavemaster if the father goes free. There has been, there and here, no response to the obvious immorality of that law. Dan also, astonishingly, seems to be making the case that Old Testament slavery is morally preferable to the ability to declare bankruptcy. So. Ok. Gays are ok as long as they don't f***. Thanks, Dan.

It was indeed Hawkgirl. And I'm going to be really upset if they don't figure out some way to work Green Lantern into this universe, considering their flagrant tease from the "Rogue Air" episode. Now that we can discuss it: I tend to be pretty easy going about time travel paradoxes in movies and TV. I take the Austin Powers approach (ala the beginning of the second movie, where the scientist tells Austin not to worry too much about it, then looks at the audience and says "that goes for you too," or somesuch. Anyway, I just want them to be consistent. Eddie killing himself erased Eobard from existence. Ok. But if it had really erased him from ever existing, there would be no out-of-control wormhole. But there was. Nobody would be aware of why they were all standing around there. But they did. Flash wouldn't be Flash (yet). But he still was. So I think Eddie killing himself set in motion a chain of events that were dependent on Eobard showing up in the first place (otherwise, Eddie has no motive to kill himself, and we're stuck in a loop). In other words, Eddie's suicide/sacrifice created a new alternate universe, one in which all these things took place, but the ramifications only begin at the point the timeline was changed. After that, don't worry about it. My big concern, which goes unaddressed, is that Eddie's suicide eliminates potentially many more people from existence (and now we'll never know who they are or what they would have done). Jay Garrick's helmet made me say "Holy Spirit!" or something close to that. I recognized Hawkgirl from the Legends of Tomorrow trailer. I'm not enough of a comic book geek to have understood the Rip Hunter reference, and it would have gone right past me if not for the Legends of Tomorrow trailer. As for Legends of Tomorrow, I was REALLY hoping Vandal Savage would be the villain in the Justice League movie. An outstanding episode, overall. I was damned impressed.