Raf

The word "betrayed" there just means "handed over" and by itself does not carry the connotation of an ally becoming a turncoat. Also note the Paul calls it the Lord's Supper and not the Last Supper. Paul says he got this narrative from the Lord, not from Jesus' disciples [1. Yeah, right, if it's remotely historical, and 2. Paul NEVER refers to Jesus as having disciples]. I should have said Paul never quotes Jesus' teachings, since according to Paul, EVERYTHING he taught was quoting Jesus. In any event, it appears more likely that the gosoels got the last supper from Paul, not the other way around. Paul never mentions who was present for this meal. Paul never blames the Jews* or the Romans for Jesus' execution [the verse in I Thessalonians 2 is interpolated, whole other discussion]. So those are some related thoughts. Others: * I am increasingly of the belief that VPW didn't believe what he taught. Any of it. * Jupiter is Zeus. Neptune is Poseidon. Mercury is Hermes. Yahweh is Baal.

I keep having various thoughts for threads and not following through because the time investment that would be involved is prohibitive. But I recognize that I have made many statements and staked out many positions over the years that warrant revisiting. In no particular order (and fully recognizing that any of these could be a thread on its own), some thoughts: * I'm not confident the historical Jesus ever existed. I know it's the position of mainstream scholarship, but I find their arguments unconvincing on balance. * The BEST evidence for Jesus existing as a human being is the unresolvable conflict between the Nativity narratives in Matthew and Luke. If you read Matthew, you walk away believing Joseph and Mary lived in Bethlehem and were targeted as late as two years after Jesus was born. They flee to Egypt and, after learning Herod is dead, decide to return home, fully intending to return to Judea. But an angel warns Joseph not to go there. Only then, after all this, does the family settle in Nazareth. In Luke, however, Joseph and Mary already live in Nazareth. An absurd plot contrivance puts them in Bethlehem for the birth of Jesus, and 40 days later they are in Jerusalem for the purification rites under the law (Luke 2:22). When they're done with that whole ritual, they RETURN to Nazareth. So how does this mean Jesus existed? Well, on its own, it does not. But it means that the earliest followers of Christianity understood Jesus to be from Nazareth, and there had to be some alternative explanation to have him born in Bethlehem. This makes little sense unless the belief that Jesus was from Nazareth was so strong that it could not be overcome, which makes the most sense if he is not a made-up character. They could make up the circumstances of his birth (and they clearly did. The two accounts have nothing in common except the three main human characters and the setting. If Jesus never existed, the character they made up would have been Jesus of Bethlehem, not Jesus of Nazareth. * The best evidence AGAINST Jesus existing if Paul's insistence that he did not learn the gospel from the apostles. It's just not plausible, even if you take revelation into account (which is not required to answer the "did he exist" question), that Paul had a chance to talk to the followers of Jesus' earthly ministry and did not recognize them as an authority on what the Lord taught. I'm sorry, what? Paul appears completely unaware of the betrayal of Judas, and his epistles never quote Jesus. He does not mention the empty tomb at all, and he never refers to Jesus being executed by the Romans at the behest of the Jews. He never refers to the sham trial or the ascension, and he never refers to Jesus "second coming" or "return," but rather of his "presence." I think the simplest explanation for Peter never saying "listen to me, not Paul. Paul didn't even KNOW him," is that Peter didn't know him either. The story of Jesus' sacrifice came first and it took place "in the heavenlies." He is executed not by Romans but by "the princes of this world," a clear spiritual, not human, reference. * I used to be quite certain that the Bible teaches God is all-knowing (past, present and future). Made a pretty strong case for it, in fact, based on scripture. But I no longer believe the Bible is consistent on the matter. The reason scripture appears to contradict itself is self-evident: It DOES contradict itself. God didn't test Abraham to teach Abraham a lesson. He tested Abraham because he genuinely did not know what Abraham would do. Ditto Job. The notion that the Bible is CONSISTENT on any matter is a presupposition, Its authors (plural) were all over the map on countless issues, including the limits of his knowledge and power. * The Bible is not monotheistic. Wanna know why Yahweh is a jealous god? Because there ARE other gods. Not "false" gods. Competing gods. And he didn't like competition, no no no. Maybe more later.

Yes

Honest to God I have no memory of having the other one. Maybe it cost too much?

"That's the funny thing about destiny. It happens whether you plan it or not. I mean, I thought I'd never see that girl again, but it turns out I was just too close to the puzzle to see the picture that was forming. Because that, kids, is the true story of how I met your Aunt Robin." "Aunt Robin?"

I used tp have a doll/"action figure" of the OG supporting character

1. "Never Gonna Dance Again"= Careless Whisper by Wham! 2. "If You Like Pina Coladas" = Escape (The Pina Colada Song) by Rupert Holmes. 3. "I Get Knocked Down (But I Get Up Again)" = Tubthumping by Chumbawumba 4. "I Feel Good." = I Got You (I Feel Good) by James Brown 5. "Rolling on the River" = Proud Mary by Tina Turner, Creedence Clearwater Revival, et al? 6. "Hey, What's Going On?" = What's Up? by Four Non Blondes 7. "I Would Walk 500 Miles" = I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles) by The Proclaimers 8. "Turn the Radio Up!" = Make Me Lose Control by Eric Carmen (may he rest) 9. "Someone Left a Cake Out in the Rain." = MacArthur Park by Richard Harris (Dumbledore!), Donna Summer, et al? 10. "Teenage Wasteland" = Baba O'Riley by The Who. WordWolf got 6 out of 10 (would have been seven if not for the perfectly understandable George Michael/Wham! mixup.

Mind if I jump in? There are a number of popular songs that I like to joke are known by the wrong name. These are songs where a lot of people genuinely believe this is the name (or they would be justified in believing so) but the name is actually something different. To win this round, correctly identify the REAL name of five songs, along with the artist (in cases of covers, either artist will do as long as it charted). 1. "Never Gonna Dance Again" 2. "If You Like Pina Coladas" 3. "I Get Knocked Down (But I Get Up Again)" 4. "I Feel Good." 5. "Rolling on the River" 6. "Hey, What's Going On?" 7. "I Would Walk 500 Miles" 8. "Turn the Radio Up!" 9. "Someone Left a Cake Out in the Rain." 10.... and of course... "Teenage Wasteland" (a freebie as it was a recent answer on another thread).

Every now and then we resurrect a topic I like to call "songs with the wrong name." I'm not going to look for it, but you know the songs. Hey, this might make a good everything trivia question.

"Haaaaaaave you met Ted?"

The Adventures of Superman

Oh I forgot to come back to VPW's distinction between a resurrection and a rising. I'm going from memory, so if anyone still has Are the Dead Alive Now, feel free to chime in. We know Revelation teaches that there will be a resurrection of the just and a resurrection of the unjust. But where does the Gathering Together fit in? Well, the GC is not a resurrection at all, because even though all those people are getting up from the dead, they're joining people who are living, so it's just a rising, not a resurrection. See? As opposed to the first and second resurrections, which feature formerly dead people... also... joining... the living... wait.

Wouldn't that defeat the point being made?

Just listened to the beginning and it reminded me of the ridiculous distinction VPW tried to draw between a resurrection and a rising. You guys remember that nonsense?

I totally forgot this was here. I think there are a bunch of things that need to be revisited in light of dwindling participation. I want to find some way to preserve our testimonies and reconsiderations of what The Way taught. No solid answers here. We'll figure something out.

Meryl Streep was engaged to John Cazale [Fredo from The Godfather] when he died. Dustin Hoffman kept name dropping him to get Streep to not like him. Streep won an Oscar and left it in the turlet. You're up.

Not Paper Moon And we can rule out the Godfather I and II

Come on, how many Best Picture winners of the 70s feature two antagonistic people and a ypung kid with a role significant enough to get a nomination? I was hoping this would be a giveaway

Not THAT antagonistic. Although the lead actor did throw a glass in a fit that wasn't in the script. Only the actor, director and cameraman knew what was going to happen. Everyone else stayed in character. I believe I said this was a Best Picture winner, so The Shining is Out.

It was best supporting actress, if i recall correctly.

Every Best Picture winner of the 1970s has been selected by the Library of Congress for inclusion in the National Film Registry for preservation: except this one. The two main adult characters were supposed to have an antagonistic relationship, so to get his scene partner in character, the lead actor would occasionally drop the name of the lead actress' recently deceased fiance, himself an Oscar nominated actor. The lead actress won an Oscar for her role. Later that night, she left it in the bathroom at an after party. The lead actor also won an Oscar. He thanked his ex-wife for preparing him for the role. One non-winner was for Best Supporting Actor. The child who was nominated was 8. He remains the youngest nominee in any category.

Next quote would have been the cop saying you're not going to kill each other on my beat and Bernardo asking him to translate that into Spanish. This was the original movie, not the remake.

Fine. Shazam! Not to be confused with Kazaam!

Sorry for the delay. Yes, these are lesser known quotes from West Side Story

"Now I can kill too, because now I have hate!" *** "When you was my age? When my old man was my age, when my brother was my age: You was never my age, none of ya! And the sooner you creeps get hip to that, the sooner you'll dig us." . *** "Back home little boys don't have war councils." "Ah, but they do here. You want me to be an American, don't you?"