Trefor Heywood

There was a programme on Brit TV only a couple of days ago about this diet being tried on epileptic children, monitored by the Children's Hospital in Great Ormond St London. The results were spectacular - one girl who had been having up to 200 fits a day went to zero and other had them reduced by up to 90% and this was with no medication being used!

Probably both dmiller :D--> Somehow I think I was glad not have been subjected to the sight of LCM doing his ballet thing though as tight clothing would only emphasise where his brain was... ;)-->

Ah but they disagree amongst themselves about lots of other issues def :D--> Bit like some of us ex Wayfarers really lol

Hmm how can loincloths ever be too tight? ;)--> (runs and hides quickly in case somebody doesn't see my joke)....

In Mormonism too there are different levels although they are not number defined. The lowest is the Terrestrial which again is the Earth. One must conclude that as TWI JWs and Mormons agree on this notion that living on a restored paradise Earth must be God's idea of a consolation prize... ;)-->

Thanks for the compliment Thomas - which thread was it meant for in case I missed it? But it just seemed apposite (head for the Webters again guys!) to mention the prison concept seeing it has been raised! :D-->

Prisons operate by limiting freedom and the creation of a set of rules against which rewards and punishments are determined. And what a rulebook TWI ended up creating! Perhaps M&A was their version of solitary confinement in a darkened room!

I'm not sure as to what point the above quote is trying to make regarding household v family. There is a difference between the state of gayness and acts which some people may do in certain situations where they are denied access to what they would consider their natural inclinations. But a prison is an institution and for many TWI was more of a prison than either household or family.

I didn;t actually intend to use my real name when I signed up! Somehow I must have got something mixed up! :D--> It was meant to be Cleftref which is a play on the Welsh spelling of Clever Trevor. As to the icon - it was the best I could find at the time that hadn't already been used!

One thing that always made me think: In the Roman world a "Household" could include slaves who were there to serve their masters. A family didn't. TWI likes having their slaves and manages to delude them into thinking that they are actually something better than family. I for one would rather be in the family rather than a slave in the "household."

I don't think that all biblical unitarian positions deny Christ's pre existence. Wierwille did but that did not make him an Arian as Arius did not deny pre existence. I believe that denial of this is called Socinianism.

I think it will be very interesting to see an appraisal of PFAL materials from one who was never involved nor took the class and who knows the cultic mindset from experience. :D-->

Im wonder if JW "current doctrine" is a similar expression to "present truth" in TWI lol. :D--> How on earth they can provide a biblical explanation that a tribe is a personality type is beyond me though. In PFAL we were informed that something like 90% of scripture interprets itself in the verse, not that I think you need to have taken it to realise that. Interpretive tangles can end up being very inconvenient and embarassing and end up in a conspiracy of silence, hoping that nobody has noticed the change. Hiding and changing past history happens in many religious groupings. In Orwell's "1984" there is only ever one copy of any edition of the party newspaper which is rewritten as necessary to reflect the current version of events.

Revelation is not the easiest book to work out but even here the 144,000 is plainly stipulated to be 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel - (Rev 7 vv 4-8). This being the case how can people possibly interpret it as being JWs or Adventists or whatever?

Thanks for the info Refiner. It's clearly a polygamous LDS offshoot, of which there are several, each claiming to be the only true inheritor of the true gospel. Such groups consider the LDS apostate for remouncing polygamy (and no doubt each other for one reason or another also). They tend to be very localised groupings and the chances of them knocking at your door and evangelising the way the main LDS church does is somewhat remote.

No I haven't Refiner. Which grouping is involved?

Yes Refiner I was for a couple of years but it didn't completely take - it's a long story which I don't want to go into just at the moment. But I guess I did pick a lot up! :D--> Remember the Temple in Independence is not LDS but RLDS or Community of Christ which they now call themselves. As such you will not find it publicised in LDS literature. For the RLDS a Temple is only built under specific revelation and is a place of worship only - they do not subscribe to the Temple endowments and sealings, or baptisms for the dead that they LDS do. They are much smaller than the LDS and do not have anything like the LDS Missionary programme. If they did not subscribe to the Book of Mormon in addition to the Bible, I doubt that they would be very distinguishable from many protestant denominations. They are, however, the largest offshoot of Mormonism apart from the LDS. Besides them there were groupings that followed other leaders after the murder of Joseph Smith and who still have a few adherents here and there. One such group owning the land that as I said before Joseph dedicated for a Temple in the Independence, Jackson County area.

Missionaries and their families have often been saving up towards a mission - usually from when they obtain the Aaronic priesthood in their early teens. It's not like the WOW programme which was often a short notice decision and all the costs of their outward transportation and money for a monthly allowance will have been met. The church pays for their accomodation and their return flights. In some missions (such as mine) they may even be provided with a car so they don't all have to resort to cycling or walking. Of course they get homesick - who doesn't when you are on a programme such as this,but they are encouraged to write weekly letters home and can phone home on Christmas day and Mother's Day. I don't think they are given domestic courses as part of their missionary training though so unless others cook for them it's fairly basic. They get a day off each week for laundry and R&R called "P Day". They always appreciate a meal and they can open up and share things about their lives and their interests - they don't feel like they always have to be "moving things" in the way TWI sees it.

Refiner: Never seen them in worn out shoes unless you refer to the amount of walking that they actually do. There are strict rules regarding whom they may be alone with - male missionaries would be equally reluctant to enter a house with a single female in it. I don't know about "old biddies" but there was a famous case back in the seventies over here over a woman called Joyce McKinney and how she seduced a male missionary on his own, so they are always together except for the bathroom etc. They even sleep in the same room, but not in the same bed. way back: As I was at the time already attending meetings there was no reciprocal obligation to worry about but I still fed them - they are very dependant on good meals from church members as left to their own devices it will be McDonalds or cereals. I also let them send emails home to family or girl friends until the higher ups in SLC decided that this was a no no.

my3cents: It wouldn't have been the Temple itself you visited but the Visitor Center. Admission to the Temple itself is only for faithful Mormons who hold recommends. VPW made an error in PFAL when he talked about the acoustics in the SLC Temple - he meant the Tabernacle (which is an entirely different building located behind the Temple) which is open to all. Missionaries are always polite and they are willing to help you with things as part of their time is allocated to social works - they have helped tidy my garden and rebuild my fence for instance. Once one even ironed my shirts but they didn't look any less creased afterwards! :D-->

With all due respect to Joyful Noise: The White House Across the Street has to be somewhere in the "top ten"...

Reading the article upon classes one has to wonder how people used to manage before the days of mobile phones. We never made contingency plans and in fact on the WOW field and even when I was a Twig leader I didn't have a phone period. Just trusted and believed that people would turn up on time and they always did.

I'm surprised that the missionaries should have gone off in a huff because you talked about underwear. All adult Mormons wear special underwear once they have been through the Temple endowment. The designs have changed over time from one piece outfits with flaps for the necessary to two piece being more popular. They are supposed to be worn 24/7 but generally allowance is made for bathing or showering, swimming, sports and many do not wear them for sex. They do carry symbols which are related to Masonry and these are supposed to be cut off and burnt when the garments wear out, the rest of the material can then be disposed of or used for any purpose like dusters etc. But never invite LDS missionaries to go swimming - they are not allowed to on ther missions because its is believed that water is under the domination of Satan who would like nothing better than to cause them to drown. Off the mission field, swimming is allowed and there are often Stake swimming nights.

rascal: Wasn't that one called It's a wonder? Can't remember who sang it whough. I like He gave me love from "America Awakes." He made the sun shine for me each morning When skies were grey He made my feet find the promised land When I'd lost my way He gave my heart a new song to sing A sweet melody He gave me love, he gave me love

Insurgent: Hmm not sure I would like to see RR in the altogether! :P-->