Trefor Heywood

Dracula Keanu Reeves The Matrix

Well "trust me I'm a Christian" makes a change from "trust me I'm a lawyer"! :D-->

Supervision and careful location yes but to do what you suggest mj can encourage vigilantism and violence. They tried that over here with newspapers publishing such details - inncocent people ended up being attached and their property was damaged by members of the public who did not know the difference between a paedophile and a paediatrician.

Jude Law also played Lord Alfred Douglas in Wilde and Gigolo Joe the robot in A.I..

Well it was either him or Jude Law! :D-->

Matt Damon?

My preference is for real ales Jonny - Bishop's Tipple, Abbot Ale, Old Peculiar etc. They all have fascinatingly strange names (and often ecclesiastical ones). Gay pubs and clubs usually sell what we call "keg" beers - gassy, weak and usually tasteless and for overinflated prices. What US folk call beer we would normally call "lager".

If that's your poison Jonny. Guinness is best drunk in Ireland where it is made - anything "brewed under licence" is ersatz.

Perhaps they were a little laxer on rules and regulations with the Europeans...

def: And from what I have read his death was no loss to the gay community either - they certainly did not see him in the same light as you do. But that is hardly a surprise is it?

Blwyddyn Newydd Dda i bawb! :D-->

def: I don't think I have claimed to be "damned special" nor do I recall throwing my sex life in your face. Some heterosexuals appear to make a far better job of that. You cite gay pride parades - I can cite the constant bombardment of heterosexual propoganda that is in our faces 24/7. Your concept of civic freedoms is very limited as is your concept of the difference between "special" and "equal." Jonny: I have no doubt that we could work together quite amicably. I would respect your desire not for me to "come on to you" and no doubt we could enjoy some robust discussions over a pint or two after work :)--> I wish that those who claim a biblical foundation could satisfactarily explain why it's ok for God to let thousands of innocent people die in natural disasters whilst it's not ok for two people of the same sex to love each other and express that physically. I find it much easier to make a biblical case for the latter rather than the former. But both are realities that we have to try and deal with.

An interesting and useful resource. I have been wondering since the events surrounding the tsunami how some people can believe that God can be so bothered about homosexuality whilst he *apparently* shows much less concern about the wholesale destruction of human life caused by natural events? Which, in reality is the more destructive? Even the Archbishop of Canterbury has stated that such an event must make one at least question the existence of God.

I went WOW in '77 too - don't even remember that question being asked!

My knowledge of him is somewhat limited - I do know that he did not endear himself to the gay community.

We can still get nostalgic for some things even when we have rejected others. I am indulging in some nostalgic dvd collecting at present so can understand it. I can now relive the Beverly Hillbillies, the Clangers and Mary Mungo and Midge! :D-->

I see that the original question has vanished under the usual avalanche of "scripture says" material. Even an appeal to "common sense" was merely a statement of individual belief and nothing to do with logic whatsoever. The usual suspects have reiterated their varying degrees of prejudice, almost like a kind of Pavlovian response. The thread is a sociological, not a theological issue. Clearly some people cannot differentiate the two. And clearly the f word has failed to be be bowdlerised by the program. Sociologically speaking homosexuality has existed to a certain degree, whether overt or covert in every society. How society has reacted to it has varied, often influenced by religion. In a secular society there is both freedom of and freedom from religion. Religion, however, cannot easily accept the concept of things that it would not itself allow and this produces a conflict of interest between what is acceptable in a civil sense and what people believe is acceptable to God. If one does not speak and act one can feel that one is, in some sense or other, letting God down. Hence religious feelings enter a discussion that is not designed for them. Clearly it can be taken as a given that both male and female homosexuality (at least in terms of activity) is verboten. Having said that, one still has to deal with the realities out there in society, no matter what one's own convictions may be. Gays are still citizens, still people, with aspirations for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They are still neighbours, colleagues, maybe even friends, who look for toleration and protection and equality of treatment, even where what they do in private may not be acceptable or tolerant of being contemplated by those with a religious conscience. There are many things that I do not approve of but I do not believe it is my place to stop others having the right to do them. I recognise that they have the right to make their own decisions and to live their lives as they see fit. There are too many busybodies out there wanting to ban this and that. To cite individual examples would divert this thread even more but I am sure that you can all think of some.

Nadolig Llawen! :D-->

Historically it has been the other way round. Many legal prescriptions against male homosexuality in the past did not have a corresponding one for female homosexuality. Lesbianism was never illegal in the UK even when male homosexuality was. Perhaps the male legislators never felt threatened by lesbianism.

Rejoice: And seeing some contributions made in these pages from some of his followers that's hardly a surprise.

"If you were the only girl in the world and I was the only loy..." :)-->

We may not have the raging hormones of teenagers but that doesn't stop everything being in perfect working order - the "warming up" process may take a little longer though! ;)-->

It's not a question of stoning, simply the statement of my complete disagreement with Raf on this issue. I for one love Titanic and watch it on a frequent basis. And it's not simply because I think that Leo is cute neither! ;)-->

I never heard of anyone else with a name like that! He certainly didn't seem to encourage its use! Pehaps because Craig sounded so much more butch! :P-->

Yes thanks dmiller I knew about the cortwright site but it has not proved very forthcoming on the Brits. Yes Ex, Barbara Wilkinson is Chris Kent's sister and I had seen that Nancy was selling some material. (thanks WhiteDove). It's just the problem of putting the gaps in the pieces as to what happened and whether or not there is any actual ex TWI organisation over here (apart from possible the odd independant twig). Quite a few Brits ended up in the US as a result of going Corpse and marrying US based believers. I know more about them than any left over here!