Trefor Heywood

The Lord of the Rings - Fellowship of the Ring?

TWI was represented to the British before by ole VP himself. Loy messed it up. No way can Rosie hope to undo that. Thank goodness!

And there are some really beauitful LDS hymns - my favourite is "The army of God" and somehow every knows the tempo anyway! :)-->

Catcup: This may be the case in Saudi Arabia, I don't really know. Of course they control access to the holiest sites, especially of Mecca. Islam too has its "catholic" and "protestant" factions such as sunni and shia and whereas a large degree of ecumenism has now been achieved on the christian side, this if far from the case on theirs. Clever manipulators have seen that a way to unite them is through hatred of non muslims and unfortunately sometimes their task has been made easier by thoughtless actions.

krysalis: I was giving VPWs standpoint, not mine. But there is a lot of good stuff in the Lord's Prayer to meditate upon - I don't think that VP ever bothered to do that.

I like the one they used in Star Trek - The Final Frontier which is done as a round. Row row row the boat Gently down the stream Merrily merrily merrily merrily Life is but a dream Another is a nonsense song sung by cub scouts over here: Gin gan gooly gooly gooly watch watch gin gan goo gin gan goo!

The link didn't work but was able to find the site by cutting and pasting only as far as the .org. I don't think that it has links with the world scouting movement so it can't really offer the alternative to BSA. I love the "international" bit - have a few people dotted in two adjacent countries and hey you are international! :)--> (TWI is another example lol). In mid Wales there is a tiny landing strip that can take two seater aircraft - it quite legitimately claims international status as occasionally a plane might fly from there into England! :)-->

The Qu'ran (holy or otherwise lol) itself refers to jihad. But in the context of those who do not follow Islam it encourages tolerance and respect. It has indeed been perverted but not by the Wahhabi royal family of Saudi Arabia (although they allow perversions in the way Islamic law is interpreted). Those who call for jihad, such as Bin Ladn, would be equally happy to see them brought down as the USA. Muslim intolerance for other Muslims is often greater than Muslim intolerance for Christians.

There is no guarantee at all in this stance - "naughty" scoutmasters have always surfaced from time - read Brideshead Revisited sometime Ron G. Mind you you probably think that homosexuals are perverts anyway. What you are really worried about is that this erroneous notion may not be carried on to the next generation.

I would be surprised if many of us were not better off for puddings since we left.

Beautiful and appropriate Belle! Alas I don't know who else was in that film without cheating.

to quote Lenin: "Freedom is precious, so precious it has to be rationed." TWI is therefore using doublethink which is doubleplusungood.

"No more Mr Nice Cat!"

Considered by whom def?

VPW would have said that was "vain repetition" and "old testament." :D-->

Let God be true though every man a liar... And the Word is brought by man alas.

Thanks def - I am always right but it's nice to see you acknowledge it sometimes! lol

Sounds like they were a right pair of wan***rs! Just like many of the TWI leadership! :o-->

Warren Beatty Shampoo Joan Collins

Paedophilia thrives on secretiveness def. As has been pointed out, there are more heterosexual paedophiles around and who polices them? Most gay people don't exactly know and hang around with paedophiles y'know. But you simply cannot expect institutions with a policy of openness to turn a blind eye when deciding to sponsor or not. It would compromise their beliefs just as much as the BSA claims that openness would compromise theirs. In most of world scouting this is simply not an issue. A British scout pledges to honour both God and the Queen, they could be atheist republicans, but as long as they make the pledge and honour the code, no window is made into their souls. Similar claims of the danger of gay people were made in the British armed forces for decades. Now they are allowed to be in an open about it and the cataclysm to morale that was predicted just did not happen. I suspect that the BSA attitude is motivated rather less than world scouting attitudes and much more by neocon religious conservatism in the USA itself.

Jesus loves you more and you now know.

If I remember rightly it was "if a man wants to go to hell it's his privilege."

Nobody can be bad all the time - even Hitler was kind to animals...

As far as I am aware Sartori jihad is translated as holy war though I guess struggle would also be possible but have not seen it used this way.

It's a bit like 1984 the powers that be decide when a quota has been achieved or exceeded when in fact "probably no boots had been produced at all."