Bramble

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- do you mean when the OT people attributed bad things to god, they really meant satan but they did not or could not SEE or say that ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're correct. ------------------------------- See, that's the answer I got when I voiced the same doubts as in Refiner's first post to Christian friends. It makes no sense to me--Their jealous God tells them to massacre whole villages, infants and children, a righteous act against the evil unbelievers, but, oh wait, it Wasn't really GOD. But it says it was god. Oh, but wait, that's not how we undestand it NOW. That, and the whole savior thing made no sense to me, either--just what exactly are we saved from? Hell? The Devil? Something in the afterlife, that has no real effect on life in the here and now? I was once pulled out of the way of a car that gunned around a corner and didn't see me--pulled back onto the sidewalk by a friend. The car could have killed me. I knew I was saved--I could tell! But saved, in a religious or spiritual context? Never could tell. Honestly, it makes me weary. Christianity didn't work for me, before or after the Way. I will not spend more of my time on earth trying to understand True Christian Doctrine so I can Believe. I did have an intersting talk about this with a feminist woman pastor of a mainstream church. (I work with her occasionally at a food warehouse/soup kitchen.) Her opinion was the armies of the OT did what they wanted to do to get the lands they wanted and stamped God's name onto it. That made sense.

My husband was one of the WOWs who got me in the word. But I married him because he reminded me of my Dad--smart, generous, funny, kind, hard working. That was the best decision I made during the Way years. (That and the decision not to go into the corps!) We went through many difficult times our last five or six years in TWI, plus just life things, like lay offs, medical emergencies etc. But the core man remains the same. He never once pulled the 'I'm the Head' card on me, though we saw it happening all around us. And he thought the branch's attitude that wives should be treated like twelve year olds was absurd. We've always talked and come to agreements about decisions, and I have never felt like a servant. The Way's marriage doctrine never really made it into our relationship. I'm glad.

I've been in and out of town quite a bit for the past three weeks, but vacation time is almost over. Went to Fairmont Hotsprings with my sister last week--guess what stuffed toy DD#3 brought with her??! A stuffed pink monkey with velcro hands. It mostly hung off the balconey. Ahh, monkeys!

You might try using the search function at Religioustolerance.org I always look up stuff about denominations etc there.

I get Mormons, JWs and Baptists from a local church several times a year. In my Way Daze I did lots of door to door, and I know some of those folks sincerely want to help someone, and are nervous, too, or believe they must do their duty, etc. But I don't want to discuss their beliefs, I don't care to share my own with strangers, and I really don't want to be too nice and get a return visit! So I say something as soon as they finish their opening line--I'm not interested and I'm in the middle of something. Have a nice day.-- Shut door.

Raf, I don't remember all the words, just the chorus, confrontation. Over and over, before household fellowship--one of our HFC favorite songs. This was in the time of rigid scheduling, Y2K prep, constant needling and 'reproof,' home inspections, financial budget inspections, child rearing instuction("You need to spank them more, harder...") two by two, marriages breaking in the branch up and folk being M&A and gone overnight. Maybe you had to live it to really hate it.

And let's not forget "Confrontation." It really warmed the heart(not)

Mj--I was in that catagory. I was such a kid, even though I was in college. And while I wasn't self destructive, I was a huge risk taker. Funny, I had left the catholic church a few years earlier than my involvement in TWI because the fear of hell stuff ceased to scare me. TWI taught no hell, We are righteous now... and it wasn't until the nineties that I realized I was running on fear--fear of 'opening a door to the Adversary,' fear of causing harm to my children by my unbelief, fear of humiliation and reproof, fear of being a 'conduit' for devil spirits. Later on there was the fear of losing my marriage in the pressure...

Hmm, things I hide. . . My identity on the internet. Rollos-- when I don't want to share. Feel a little guilty about that! Books in my bedroom--not exactly hidden but Off Limits to my bookworm kid due to adult content. Or due to the sheer amount of $$ I have sunk into some of them. Also, some videos, dvd's. Outa site outa mind. No guilt there, mom decision. At work, I 'hide' my Wiccan beliefs--in the broomcloset, heehee--but I have no guilt about that. It is a secular workplace, and no one's business. Plus I work daily with two very conservative Christians and I suspect they would have issues. Why start a drama?

Hey, Tom, maybe we could tailgate in the parking lot! Brats and brew!

A fellowship type meeting, with songs and a teaching and manifestations? No, I wouldn't go. If I wanted to I could find an exway group with in a reasonable drive. Decided several years ago that wasn't for me. However, if there was a purely social event, like a picnic or campout, and lots of GSC people were attending, I might go.

Thanks for all the advice. I want to look into getting a pen drive--several people recommended that, and I now have an internet backup, so phew!

I suspect it was (3) magnetic damage. I will be ever so careful from now on. But I did get a message from a famous author (Mercedes Lackey) who has had it happen to her. She paid the big bucks to recover it, but then. she has big bucks!

Ahh, Brother Lingo, your Amazing Davy experience gave me shivers.

Waaah! It is what I--gulp--feared!!

I have floppy that I've been saving stuff on, used it yesterday, but today it won't open on either computer!??? The message I get is that it needs formated. Did I break it?

Shellon-- 'I'm very proud that I kept my marriage vows and protected my children.' Good for you. Ditto

We had a HFC who systematically picked an individual or family and rode them until they left or blew up and got booted. We were dumb enough to believe his take on the hidden darkness in their lives for a couple of years. He was an old buddy of my husband's, from their early ministry days. Time went by, and his scrutiny turned on us. As life in the Way goes, we had an ally--the limb coord was an old friend of my hubby's from his wow year. So things happened--tons of reproof, but not anything that escalated. However, since the HFC was always 'working' on something with us, we were kept in his fellowship, a forty minute cross town drive, while others were moved to fellowships near their homes. There was a fellowship within walking distance of our house. The HFC disliked me, and would be particularly nasty to me if I went to HF by myself, which happened all the time because our kids were in kindergarten and first grade and couldn't be up late. But he was always nice to hubby. Then our limb coordinator buddy got booted. The new Limb really disliked us--I was ill on a branch Sunday, and my husband was not able to work on the set up crew.Omygosh! What weakness in our lives! Our bully of an HFC quickly saw the balance of power had changed and zeroed in. We took a three week vacation and regained our sanity. When we returned, the HFC had a new area for us to 'work' on under his 'spiritual'eyes. We walked away. A few weeks later we were mark and avoid. I think we spoke evil of the ministry or something.

I must remember to pack my Sing Along the Brine for our trip to Tennesee! Leaving tomorrow--hopefully I'll have great Monkey tales when I return!

Quote: Just WHY are you guys so loathe to dismiss all the supernatural stuff to myth and/or superstition? **** Don't know, Sudo. Do you? Seriously, you think I can answer that?? Could it just be differences in human nature? Genetic? Or attempts to bring order out of chaos? I don't know. As for people treating you like crap cuz you're an athiest--hey that wasn't me! How rude, I say. I'm all,"Be free little butterfly!"

I guess I’m one of those dreaded ‘ threw the baby out with the bath water’ types. I was the way’s version of chapter and verse for many years, each year more miserable than the last. After we left (5 years now) we did some exway ministry stuff, but had no great experience there, the ‘twig’ seemed very controlling. Moved onto churches, cuz I thought we should, people were nice, lots of activities for kids, but could never really settle down in one. During our church time I began to explore other belief systems out of curiosity, and goddess spirituality/Wiccan beliefs were electrifying to me. I studied these beliefs while still attending a church for quite a while. Tried several times to get excited about Christian/Bible beliefs but that was gone–like it evaporated, disappeared.. I finally admitted to myself that I had changed, and wanted to continue on this path, and so I have. Chapter and verse brought much turmoil and stress to my life. I don’t miss it, gave enough of my life to it. All my happy memories of good times were pretty much spoiled by our last years IN, and by M&A. I’m not one who gives the Way big credit for saving me or teaching me about God, or about life. It did teach me about being wary of those who have the absolute truth, the true religion.

The Bluzeman's fine, original song has brought back memories of my Monkee past!! The Monkee I was supposed to marry. I remember this VERY clearly now. This WAS the direction my life should have taken. At age ten, I had great wisdom. Great Monkee, forgive me for not growing up and marrying Davy.

Hi Mr. Moonlight, I waited for my spouse to desire to leave for several years. It wasn't easy, but he eventually saw how unbalanced life was, how ugly things got. And I had to be so careful about not voicing all my complaints etc. It was a great unburdening when we left. I don't think he would have wanted to divorce me, but since there were children I think he might have been persuaded to divorce and get custody to keep them 'in the protection of the Household.'

Have a lovely birthday!

You might be in a cult if..... some one scolded you for the state of your sock drawer and you are forty years old!