Bramble

On the savior thing--why would a father sacrifice a son for his other children? In the family I was raised in, my dad would have sacrificed himself,not one of my brothers, or my mom would have done it. My husband or I would give ourselves for our kids. That,to me, is a good case for the trinity. To sacrifice yourself is one thing, to sacrifice another is a whole nuther thing.

My decision to leave the Christain faith was not a particularly scholarly one, and it took place over several years, with different events,experiences, and books etc. all mismashed together. Towards the end of our time in TWI, an article came out in the Way magazine about Her story--the dangers of feminist spirituality. I was also very unhappy at that time and desired to rebel from the legalism and unloving manipulation we constantly faced. I had a library card (oo, dangerous!) and checked out one of the reference books refered to in the article--Women who Run with Wolves. It actually made more sense than the stuff we were into. But I renewed my mind. After leaving TWI I tried an off shoot, which was controling, at least the twig we went to--ran from that. Bounced around several churches. I began to read other books on feminist spirituality, because I found it intriguing. While I wasn't ready to chuck my belief system, deep inside I wished life was more like the goddess worship, feminist spirituality I had started to read about. Hubby and I could not relax in a church atmosphere--there was still the belief that we NEEDED to obey leadership. There always seemed to be some type of fear motivation--fear of sin, fear of reproof(in TWI) fear of Hell(in churches)fear of devil spirits. Also, the US vs Them attitude was every where--heard liberals moaning about evengelicals, Methodists dissing Catholics. Sheesh. It was like an epidemic, and I didn't want it. We moved, and we were in the country. One night I sat on the deck, and watched the full moon over the mountains. It was a spiritual experience, and I knew it was feminine. One of those Unverifiable personal gnossis things that sound stupid to other people. At this point I was still in the mainstream church--the most liberal one in my area--but I began to read on the internet about Wicca, which I had run across in the goddess spirituality stuff, (also on Buffy, heehee) Around that same time at the church we went to I was asked to take over a youth group. That is when I really faced it--there was very little Christian doctrine I believed, or wanted to teach my kids. Original sin, salvation, redemption, the sin nature of man...I could not teach it. I could leave--I could be free, have a connection to the Goddess. . . so in a short space of time, that is what I did. I don't believe in one true way for everybody. If your Christian or druid faith works for you, that is fine with me. I will not try to change you, and I don't respect others who try to change me, even though I know where they are coming from. Acceptance of other's beliefs as being valid for them is one of the things I like most about my new faith,along with no fear motivation,and no need to obey some authority in order to please God. I am part of my god/goddess, not some sinful being who had to be redeemed by a blood sacrifice. It is more like family. Why not Christianity? Because I found something that works better for me.

'Anyone here ever have to go "Confrontation Witnessing"?' Yup, we 'confronted the world with the Word' just like way disciples. And we only went to expensive apartment complexes and new suburban neighborhoods.

It was '98, just before I left TWi. I was at the Advanced class at HQ that year, Craig's class. Mike Martin sang it, it was lively and well received.

Quote from Galen: May I ask, during what period of TWI did you learn to treat others in this manner? *** I was taught this during my wow year in '83, by our local corps leadership, involving a new grad who had a parent dying of cancer in a small town in the state. We were to council this grad to remain with us, where the Word was 'hot,' and not to return home to take care of parent. The parent would either believe to live or die, corps said--no emotion, no concern. The unbeliever parent--a Christian trinitarian church attendee, wasn't important, I now see.

I wasn't very complicated when I got into the Way--I was a college kid, not all that grown up. I wanted to know The Truth,and I wanted what alot of girls that age want, a nice husband, future with kids, etc. And I got it--I married one of the WOWs who got me in the class, had a bunch of kids. Years later, I had a HFC who seemed to be doing his darndest to split us up. There were Years of confusion and doubt--doubting myself, because, why would a believer, man of God etc, be trying to wreck my marriage? Why would anyone dislike me so--especially a leader? I'd never had this problem before--I was generally well liked, I thought. Had I changed? Was I really so hateful, slothfull, hardhearted?? What about what was best for our little kids? Why couldn't my husband see what was happening?? I must be wrong!!! I guess because it was deceptive, and sneaky and so ugly it was hard for an idealistic guy like my hubby to believe. Plus the HFC was a buddy of his from waaay back. Finally, we left. I no longer believe in The Truth, though I believe in some truths that work for me. I still have my marriage, far more stress free now, the kids are growing up. . . I guess I now have what I wanted, which was family.

We have AOL 9.0. I like it--except when I get cut off, which isn't that often. I like the kids accounts. All mine have their own accounts. I can monitor them if I feel I need to, they can't surf into adult sites, they don't get porn spam in their junk mail. Yes, I like Aol radio--they don't do commercials. My yahoo radio streams for awhile, and then puts out the commercials.

Arg, I missed this Friday night. will have to set a reminder!

Quote, Hope R: I was in too long - any good TWI 1 did for me in the early years was made null and void by TWI 2. **** Yup, that's how I feel about it,too. I look at the photo albums of when my kids were small,but remember the behind the scenes crap we were going through. There was always something. I do not enjoy groups, clubs or class settings, though if they are blue jean/sneaker casual I'm more comfortable. I tend to resent having to put the time into such things for work etc. While I have gone to public festivals etc, I prefer to practice my beliefs in private in my own home and yard. I'm no longer a Bible believer/Christian, but I do understand that not all groups/churches are like the Way. Most of the churches are much better in helping their followers with quality of life issues than the Way was, as far as I can see. I just lost interest somewhere along the way, and saw no reason to pretend to believe so I could belong to a group.

Scientific question: If I replace my allergy meds with sex, can I operate heavy machinery?

Our last ten years in, we probaly gave 30k in ABS, more when you count classes, advances etc,etc. Many months we just scraped by, on one income with little kids, paying one bill or another late. Our savings usually were earmarked for some way event. Oh! And renting was more expensive than the mortgage we gave up to be good Wayfers. We would not have tossed that extra money away on drinking--we could have had decent cars, for one thing. Medical bills wouldn't have been so long and drawn out. We could have started a college fund for our kids. As far as I can see, we got nothing in return for giving that money to TWI. No services from TWI, that's for sure. Due to the deaths of both sets of parents, we did inherit a great deal of money, after we left TWI. That has repaired the holes in our finances left by our years in TWI. College money for the kids is still a concern, though.

Maybe I'll spend my 'teen friendly rec room' money on a cruise! Send the kids to my sister's. Hmmm.

Hmmm, I wasn't a poster back in the days of the Agnostics at the back table thread, but I did read it. Can't remember what year that was,I hadn't been out of TWI too long. I was pretty sure I wasn't really a Christian,though, so that thread was of interest to me. I found it pretty ugly, and the Christians sure didn't impress me with their arguments. How can you argue any one into belief or unbelief, anyway? Either the person does or doesn't believe. How does all that anger and insulting help ? I really didn't feel like getting any more involved with GSC at that time, and left around then to pursue other interests. Only dropped in now and then until recently. I wonder how many shy unbelieving ex twis never speak up due to no desire to go through something like that? Since I've been here, and in chat now and then, people have been very friendly, though there have been a few snipes. But I do get the impression that some here would be much happier if this was a Christian only forum.

Pat, I ptd.

Quote: Yeah, until your friends from those boards come into a Christian site and stir the pots. **** Hmmm, and none of your Christian friends would ever come onto a clearly wiccan board and sling around the Satan worshipper label and threats of Hell, now would they? That's why some religious boards have Rules of Conduct and moderators that aren't afraid to delete and ban. Grease Spot isn't a Christian site.

I guess I missed the Peak. I first read GSC back when it was on ez board, in 2000, I think, but I never posted or got to know people. I'd pop in occasionally after that, maybe every couple of months. As far as I can see, there was always plenty of arguing and flame wars going on. Kinda makes some of my wicca/pagan boards seem very sedate.

Oz girl--I have a friend I IM constantly who lives in Austalia--Bateman's Bay. No way connection.

Excie--I was playing. Tom, if I send you my money, how will I ever afford that cool rec room where my kids can sneak boys and booze?

Exie, what can I say, I'm a marshmellow. I have to be careful around fire. Maybe I need to make a teen years agenda, starting now so I'll be ready.

Sudo, i'm so NOT looking forward to that. Would buying a big, big house help? So they could hang out in the rec room? This is my coping plan for the teen years.

Well, I meant as in list of things to do. At work I always have an agenda for the day. Will do, Ex.

Saturday Night Agenda: 1 Super clean the kitchen in preparation for much use. 2 Brush dog. 3 Make peanut butter oatmeal cookies. 4 Get entire family to bed early, Mr. Bramble included. ;)--> What's your Agenda??

Hope this isn't a derail. . . sirguessalot, do have you looked at other belief systems wisdom teaching? Seven chakras comes to mind.

I am sorry for your turmoil, and hope your decision leads you to peace.

I so agree with Raf--Gease2 was just eeevil.