Bramble

We have considered homeschool, and it is always an option. It has some clear advantages. We live in an area where the public schools are good. My kids do very well in school, and have had some great experiences and opportunities. We have had some things come up over the years, and I am not shy about calling the teacher or the principal, and I have seen things worked out to my satifaction. For instance, a few years ago, we had problems with a bully and our school has a no tolerance policy, but it wasn't getting better. The problem--the teachers were not on the playground, they have aides who do playground duty, and the aides weren't noticing/reporting things like they should. Once that got figured out, the problem child quit being a problem. I have yet to have a teacher that was incompetent or uncaring, nor are my kids coming home with bizarro values learned at school. Most of the bizarro stuff they pick up comes from their friends, and that gives dad and I a good reason to teach them something. So I have no compelling reason to homeschool at this time, but I like to keep my options open.

We live in an area where the schools are good, which was one of the reasons we moved here. The teachers my kids have this year are very good--one we had a couple years ago.

I almost always have college aged teacher's aids in my preschool. Most have been very good, some have been lazy. It helps to have very clear guidelines on what you expect them to do and what is not allowed(lots of college kids want to read while the kids are playing outside. Sorry, you have to watch them, or even interact!) The biggest problem I have isn't really laziness though, but playing favorites. While it is great for an aid to bond with a child, it really hurts all the kids if they have a favorite(and usually the favorite is a cute little girl with nice clothes,) who gets special priviledges and attention. All the kids want attention, all of the kids want a special job. So I have to watch for that.

I learned that crafty people can use the Bible to convince good hearted people to be 'tools,' and if the 'tool' balks or protests their use, verses proving the authoritarian stance can be shown, with all indignation and sincerity. 'This is what the Word says...' It was very enlightening, and costly.

We left because we were sick to death of being under the thumb of a crazy man(no, not LCM, but a HFC who wanted to be him.) We were constantly under scrutiny, being 'tattled' on to higher leadership, and the HFC had it in for me, while constantly giving hubby the good dog treatment. It was a confusing, ugly and stress filled few years, where I wanted to leave, but hubby didn't. Finally we were once again involved in a drama over our 'weaknesses,' and had enough. The sense of freedom we felt was worth the M&A.

Another big difference between TWI teachers and secular teachers--the latter type doesn't get personally offended and enraged if their students don't 'get' it. Instead they try giving it more time, or another method of instruction etc.

andreatheflorist--sent you a pt about my kids. :D-->

Quote 'It would be interesting to know how many people in a current Way fellowship are seeking psychological or medical help outside the walls of Zion.' In the last fellowship I went to(left in 99) it would behoove you to keep your mouth SHUT about any problems. If you didn't look perfect, then you were trouble to be weeded out. And mental problems--weren't retemories and renewing the mind supposed to solve all that?

andreatheflorist---heehee, a sa mom who gave birth to large, full term twins, I hear ya. beached whale says it all!

In my area there was a type of 'honeymoon' period in the early ninties, after POP, during the Galations tapes era. It didn't last long, and people began to drop like flies after that.

One night I had to run an errand late at night, and then decided to go to Wendys drive through for a frosty(naughty, blowing the diet.) I saw a teen age girl walk by, crying, and I thought it was pretty dangerous for a young girl to be out walking alone so late at night, so I asked her if she needed help. Ended up taking her home. She turned out to be only twelve years old--just looked older, dressed older, heavy makeup. She'd gotten in with a crowd of college kids, and ended up 200 miles from home with no money--plus the college kids had found out how young she was and were scared of facing legal consequences if her parents pressed charges, so they dumped her on the side of the road. She called her mom, then stayed at my house until they could drive up and get her. She showered, ate, slept on my couch, and went home wearing some of my old sweats. . . I could tell her mom loved her,and the girl was so scared. Now I have a tall curvy twelve year old of my own, yikes! If she ever did anything crazy like that, I sure would hope some kind person would help her out. But I wouldn't invite someone into my home if I thought they might endanger my family.

:o--> Pleased to meetcha, IK Names.

Many folks, Goey? I see only a handful of non Christian posters on this whole site. Oakspear, Abigail, George Aar, Lindyhopper, myself. . . maybe a couple more, but not even a dozen. Aren't there a couple hundred posters on this site?

This is a Bramble ramble: Abigail Quote: I have no desire to align myself with any religion which teaches exclusion... *** This was a big part of what I found attractive with the beliefs I now hold. In all the confusing mishmash of beliefs, how could a loving God really expect people to find that one exclusive church or religion or doctrine, in the muddle of all the others? Really, none of them stood out as obviously the one and perfect way, to me. Other people don't have to be wrong, in order to make your choice right for you--they are just different. My understanding of love changed alot after I had children,too. Obeying commandments--while important to the Christain God,wasn't all that important to me. The disobedience of children did not change my feelings toward my kids at all, I loved them no matter what. Also I had the example of my parents (who left the church when I was a teen.) I have a mentally ill sibling--very ill,unable to live a normal life even with meds, and I saw how they treated him, doing everything they could to give him some quality of life, which isn't easy to do. Love that demands began to look manipulative, to me. Back in my TWI 'golden years' there was the teaching on auxano--growth from with in without compulsion. It was like a beautiful fairy tale, or Utopia or something-- lovely. Never saw it or experienced it, though. what I have now, I would call auxano, though most Christans would deny me that

Way Friends = spies

Hmmm, some of the Household Fellowhsip Coordinators were pretty disturbing people. They are gone, too? Or just following new orders? quote: They're opening their financial books to the public? Information for innies--regular churches have annual financial meetings, with full financial information. They give the congregants everything, on paper! They also have voting--gasp! Like--do we want to refurnish the nursery or get new choir robes--vote now! And people discuss it--not just the leadership!

Gosh,I'm so astonished--I actually agree with Zixar on something. I had to post. Zixar quote: 'I suppose it depends on how much qualifies as "very different". Despite many doctrinal differences, Christianity under TWI isn't radically different than it is under Catholicism or any other Protestant sect.' That's pretty much the conclusion I came to--it just motivated me in a different way. Also the exclusive thing, the jealous god--not a selling point for me.

Oh, and another thing!(I forgot this on my previous post.) The deathbed situation-- to change at the last minute like that. Seems to me a person who did that might be motivated more by fear of the afterlife(Hell, etc) or by guilt at a wrong doing, than by love or loyalty to God and Christ. Fear was a huge motivator in my experience in TWI. Not a motivator at all in my new beliefs.

Gosh, Zixar, I was being honest before you posted your big renounce thingy (which kinda reminds me of the Inquisition, btw, only without the torture. Well, maybe a little torture.) I was just trying to clarify, since it seemed like you didn't get what I believed from my previous posts. As far as death bed situations, I was in the er with a heart thing a couple years ago. The whole 'turn back to Christianity thing' didn't even cross my mind. Mostly I was hoping those scruffy young doctors in ER knew what they were doing.

To clarify:(-->sorry) Is it possible for a person to leave Christianity without that person, who is leaving, to have some personal flaw, in your Christian view? I understand that everyone has flaws--but the sense I am getting from you and others, is that anyone who leaves your faith must have a flaw, weakness, fault, did something wrong, never believed anyway etc.. cuz only Christians are ok? I can't help you understand, I wrote my journey as honestly as I know how. Perhaps it is a black or white world view vs shades of grey world view disconnect. I'm glad your daughter is well, I don't know why she got sick, either, but I suspect there are elements of chaos in the world. Things that happen with no explanation. Perhaps my change of faith fits in there, hmm? And thanks, but I don't need help. I didn't enter this thread looking to be fixed and return to Christianity. Def asked.

Sorry def59, but it seems to me your thread is just devolving into one of those we, the Christains are right, you, the unbelievers are WRONG. So I see no more purpose in playing. I can go back and read the last thread that went there. Zix - renounce and Reject! Sky - personal inventory (personal flaws),bittereness and anger def59- bitterness, anger,if you ever truly believed in the first place What did you say when you started this thread? Oh yeah. Quote: I promise not to scoff or mock your responses. You've lost my trust in your ability to do that. Later

quote: 'It just it always was my view that doctrinally they kinda wanted to appeal to the flesh by saying a lot of stuff was ok when it really wasnt.' Like what? The area I was in wasn't big on premarital sex being okay, or drinking etc. I was a gullible college kid who had never read the Bible before. I sure didn't know doctrine--I was a el ed with a drama minor--no theology. I though PFAL was God's truth, and everything was great--I married one of the wows who got me in the Word. qoute: 'The other thing is bitterness. Are you folks sure your not just angry at God because he wouldnt do what you thought he oughta? Personally, I kinda think you are. (Dont wack at me to hard I cant say it any nicer.)' As far as being angry with god etc, that is the easy answer for you, isn't it? Keeps it all nice and tidy--those bitter, angry unbelievers. I can certainly dismiss them. Rather than listening to things the folk here have actually tried to express? Abigail, for instance, has not come off bitter or angry at all, in my opinion. She sounds very reasonable about her beliefs. Who exactly has come off bitter and angry? Or are we bitter and angry because we are no longer Christians? Is it even possible to leave Christianity with out having some major personal flaw?

Renounce Jesus? Reject Christianity? It seems to me that you are trying to put me in a position of enmity against your faith and your God. I feel no such enmity in my life. I'm just not Christian anymore.. I don't worship your God or follow your Holy Scriptures--is that rejecting and renouncing? Or do I have to be dramatic and declare those exact phrases to satisfy you? I do not look down upon Christians, or consider it a false faith, or consider them the enemy-- though there are times where I am careful to keep my beliefs to myself in order to avoid trouble. I think all faiths are valid paths--unless they harm and destroy people. This is a common belief among Wiccan/pagans, quite different from what we were taught in TWI, or in my childhood RC church. Early in this thread, someone used the word 'disconnect.' My leaving the Christian faith had far more to do with a 'disconnect' with Christianity, and the Christian God then some type of angry hate filled tantrum--plus I found something I do connect to, so I'm not agnostic or athiest. Do you believe Christians should go around denouncing and rejecting other's religions?

'I just want to help you' = I'm trying to look good and keep the branch coordinator off my back, so I'm so GLAD I found this approved area of weakness in your life, because working with you and spreading your weakness all over the branch will make me look great!!! Slothfulness = you don't have the money for the____, or have to work Hardheartedness = you would rather spend Thanksgiving with your family than go to the ___. Communication in the household = Quickly gather the remnant to trash and M&A their dear friends who left TWI today. Y2K= the end of the world as we know it. Decent and in Order = it must look as impersonal as a motel room. Children's fellowship = no longer important, cuz we have spoons.

'Therefore my outcome is certainly far different than yours.' Yes, I am aware that others have made very different choices than I have made. I'm good with that. I am not preaching, or trying to imply that other's choices are not as good as mine. My choice was for me.I was just trying to convey the journey, for this thread.