Bramble

I left TWI five years ago. I've only met LCM twice, he was not the primary reason I left. I didn't even know about the sex predator stuff until we had been out for months. We left because of the witch hunts, authoritarianism, micromanagement and stress of trying to live the TWI2 lifestyle(trickled down LCM.)Our lifestyle was ugly and unhealthy. I don't need counseling, am not addicted to or believe Way doctrine. I will never desire to return to TWI or a group similar to it. I am comfortable with my spiritual journey. If VPW had lived, if LCM and TWI2 had never existed, I don't have any idea what I might be doing or believing. As for LCM being gone, current leadership in TWI adored him and copied his mannerisms, attitudes and style. Some even copied his hobbies, hairstyle and goattee. These would not be people I would trust under any circumstances.

Chas--check pt.

If I remember correctly, the Way doctrine on bitterness viewed it as a growing thing that consumed your life, some type of root, evil thing(no I don't have my notes. I purged.) It was a big Twitwo teaching, but not as big as Present Truth. Probably a conduit for devil spirits,too. Wasn't any unrenewed thought a conduit, TWITwoers? So being the receiver of some evil and being bitter about it, was actually worse than dishing out the evil with no remorse(condemnation.)Handy doctrine for leadershi+. So all us bitter people are supposed to have just awful lives. It's similar to the 'greasespot by midnight' belief. Don't know about you all, but my life is much, much nicer now, in all types of catagories, like income, housing, stress levels. I even weight less.

Is bitter like 'still angry and see no need to forgive'? Sometimes I think those that call folk bitter have a different view of those they call bitter--like the bitter person is obsessed with former leadershi+ and thinks, breathes, stalks, fills their day, with thoughts and actions about their former association.

I work full time and have three kids of my own. My family is my first priority and takes the bulk of my time and effort. I work because my family needs the income. If my family had a different need, then my life would reflect that. I am happy to help others when and where I can, within the limits of time and money that I have. But I see helping as a hands on type of activity rather than filling someone with my words and opinions--like babysitting for free, or voluntering at the local food bank now and then. I am also very involved in PTO at school and fund raising activities, which benefit my kids and other kids, too. I have little 'me' time, but then how many moms do? When we were in TWI my life was stretched to the max and I was under a great deal of stress trying to keep up with all the hoop jumping. There was no time or energy to think much beyond the next days scramble to keep everything together. There were no people to help--they were all doing the same frantic rush. Just keeping my kids well, happy etc was a challenege and not supported by our lifestyle in TWI. Kids needs were just an annoyance in the important stuff of doing the "Word." In fact, as far as I could tell, kids were just an annoying time and money sucker, best if need free(yeah!) and silent to the point of not being there. What TWI would consider 'help' as in getting people into fellowships and classes, witnessing,teaching, ABS etc, is of no value to me now.

I just imagine their blood pressure rising. Veins popping in their foreheads. Tight tendons in their necks. Hands crushing the mouse. Anger is not a good motivator of others here. Unlike in TWI where it was the magic that made it all happen!

It must be frustrating for former TWI leadership to come here and reprove GSC. Back in the day, they were able to threaten and MAKE people buckle. Here, they can even bring out the big gun(Bible)and still no one does what they think should be done. Heehee

Money! I still get angry when I think about how poor we were when my kids were small. A couple of hundred bucks, which was about what our ABS was back then, would have helped so much with healthier groceries, or medical bills. We were counseled to sell our house(payment was under $400/month) and move to the Limb where the Word was "hot." All rentals were higher than our mortgage! We got reproved for our crappy believing, and another family was held up as an example--but I happened to know they had food stamps, medical assistance etc(which is a big help with little kids!), from the state. We thought that was wrong, so didn't do that, but the leadership didn't know this family had all this aid. Sheesh, we had some dam fine spiritual leadership.

Exactly. All the teaching we ever heard on Christianity pointed to a group. The idea of being some type of lone ranger Christian with out fellowship with believers(one of the five basics, remember?)didn't even enter our minds at that time. Seems weird now, but that is where our thoughts were at. And even now, every Christian I know is part of some group or church.

This reminds me. About two years before we left TWI, I let my husband know what I thought, how we needed to get out. His reply was,"Where else would we go?" And I was stumped. In Wayview, there is NO Other safe place--churches are evil, ex believers are evil, ex way groups are evil, the worlds is evil. Big devil spirits are everywhere outside the hedge of protection of TWI, waiting to get you, waiting to harm your children. I'm sure that view keeps many people in.

Galen--yes, bad things happen in churches, too.(I sure don't belong to one.) But in a church that is with a denomination, congregants can make complaints known up the change of command. I've never been involved in a non denom, but I'll bet there are some ethical ones with some type of grievance mediation. Heck, I worked at a Catholic Hospital that had a terrific grievance procedure. This only happens in TWI if you have friends in higher places than your leadership(for instance, if you are related to or are big buddies with a region coordinator, you have some leverage if you are in deep doodoo with your branch leader.) A minister who leaks confidential counseling business can be fired, the same way other professionals in counseling can be fired. That doesn't happen in the Way, smear campaigns are part of the whole Mark and Avoid process, and are designed to make the leadership look long suffering and spiritually wise. They dredge up anything they can think of and assign devil spirits. The person who got kicked or walked is spiritual dog poop. You're not gonna convince me that TWI(2) wasn't much worse than most churches. I saw a dozen(there were more in the branch, but about a dozen that I actually knew) people kicked out and trashed in TWI in just a couple of years.It was just a matter of time before they got to us. Haven't heard too much about churches doing that, to that extent.

Few churches have leaders that will enter your house, search your closets for untidiness, demand your budget book or tax form for proof of income, require written vacation plans, demand 15% of your income, or kick you out. Most churches see you on Sunday--and you don't call anybody if you have other plans, unless you're the organist or something. Most churches have full disclosure of all finances, including the minister's salary, mileage reimbursement, and the Sunday offering amounts. Nor do you have to obey the minister if (IF) you are counseled in any matter. Counseling is up to the congregant, not the minister, unlike in TWI. TWI is nothing like most churches.

I think this is bizarre. Why didn't they call her parents? That's what our grade school did if a kid got in a fist fight or other violent episode. And what if there was a medical situation going on? I once had a little boy in preschool have a wierd and scary reaction to an antibiotic. He woke from a nap acting psychotic, running around screaming and crying, hitting and kicking when I tried to hold him. Called mom, who took him to the er.

HWC--no longer doing Bible stuff was our decision and we feel it is right for us. I would never presume to say this is what others should do, or that this is the way to health or Nirvana or whatever! I think people need to figure this stuff out for themselves.

Was it worth it? For me--no. Those things I held as the most precious and important were the things attacked in the end--my marriage and family. Yup, I've learned alot, I know alot about where I 'opened the doors.' That is the only value I see.

I was in for most of my adult life--college to forties. My habits of daily living were formed in the Way--what I did when I woke up, how I cleaned,how the money was handled, how I disciplined my children,how I thought of neighbors and people I met during my day(as potential Way folk,etc.) When I first got out very little changed. We left without a support system--all our way friends M&Ad us, were were so trashed in the branch. So all those ties were severed.We explored ex way groups,but felt used--we had resources they could use. Our first big change was having freetime on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays--wow, that was nice. Then we realized--both of us had good jobs, why were we driving junkers? So we got a car loan. Debt!!! Not only did the world not fall apart, but we had a car that worked great, looked great and my husband(who is mechanical) didn't have to do car repairs all the time(haahaa--bet the branch missed him and his tools! Wonder who did all the car repairs after we left? Who bought all the tools we used to lend?) With the free time, we took classes and developed hobbies, all things that were not part of the Way lifestyle that we had lived. Eventually we moved and bought a house.Somewhere during that time we quit using Way terminology like 'opportunities' and 'available' except when my husband is being a smart a$$. We also quit doing Bible stuff, that was our choice, but it wss certainly unwaylike. The hardest things for my whole family was to get over was the wretched attitude toward cleaning, and the huge emphasis on --ohmygod, you made a mistake, horrors! I am the only one who still gets crazed when the house is messy. Everyone else is alot more relaxed. I'm working on it.

Are you serious? Abandon your kids so you can be less miserable? Leave them with the Innie spouse, with out your protection or input? Or put them through the TWI style custody fights, where the spouse that leaves Twi is possessed and the kids are told that? How scary and confusing is that to a child? That's what your God wants? Just for you to be happy?? What about a parent's responsibility to those children? What about raising them to be as healthy and as undamaged as possible in the situation? Isn't that love? Sometimes that means you get to be miserable until something changes. In some religions that would be called a sacrifice. Parents sometimes do what they need to do to take care of their kids, even if it doesn't make the parents 'happy.' Sometimes it's just not that easy, OM. They'll forgive you someday? Really? Sure about that?

HCW--we left about 5 years ago. When we made the final phone call to the limb guy--who was calling my DH at work so DH felt he had to call him-- one of the things we heard was the whole spiel about --what about your children? You'll be outside the Hedge of Protection! Our kids are doing great. No brain tumors or Mack trucks.

My kids liked open ended toys--doll houses and other Fischer Price type 'sets' with tons of little happy meal type people(which could be bought in bags for cheap at second hand stores)and cars. We also had a great set of homemade wooden blocks that could be used with the house type toys. My kids would play for hours with those. Sometimes for variety we moved some of those outside to the sandbox. Some threes like kiddie computer games. One child can learn to play alone with toys and get quite involved in the play. Duplos, tinker toys and other building toys are great. They don't need tons of supervision for that type of play, either, unlike arts and crafts. Also, cross play--building toys with cars and people etc, can really extend the child's interest in playing, though it does take a little longer to clean up. But sorting is a valuable activity for a 3 yr old. I also had a swing set and bikes etc in the back yard, and my goal was to get the tot outside for a couple hours a day(1 am, 1 pm). All my kids were more liveable if they spent a couple hours outside everyday. We were a one car family for a long time, so I rarely went places more than once a week, though we took walks with the stroller. I also tried to arrange a playdate every week with another mom. They usually came to my house because we had the big fenced yard etc. Like Cindy! I followed a daily schedule that didn't vary much from day to day. If my oldest was bored and I had chores etc to do, then I would let my oldest set up toys in a fort under the dining table, or use blankets across furniture in the living room. When I was nursing I could read books to the older child, who quickly learned to turn pages. Or we would watch kiddie tv. George--blocks, wheels and ramps ARE physics activities for a 3yr old! Oh, and I had a gate across the kitchen, so the kid couldn't get in there if I was busy with baby(the HFC hated this, but it worked for me!)

If I had left TWI with out hubby, especially when I first wanted to leave TWI, my husband would have been mobbed by leadership, I would have been totally demonized and Hubby would have been encouraged to divorce me and fight for complete custody of kids. I'd seen others in my branch go through that, and didn't want it. At least if I was there I could soften stuff for my kids and talk reason into my husband. And I loved my husband. Things may have been different in early Way days, but in the nineties it was gruesome, at least in my area. One of the divorcing couple had to be the evil one, one the faithful one. And if you left the Way, well, you were definitly evil and devil posessed.

Rascal--the misery ended when we left--yup! Life has been much more 'abundant' since we left!

Fear and loyalty to something that wasn't there kept us in. We lived out in a rural area for a number of years, ran a small, sweet fellowship. We were aware of the fog years crap, but were able to stay somewhat isolated. Most of the corp folk we knew left in '89 or so, but we believed we were standing, keeping the truth alive etc. We both really believed it was the TRUTH and only the Way had it. In the nineties we were counseled to sell the house and move to be in the limb city, where the believing was hot etc. I'd had a rather scary health situation come up after my last delivery--debt, ya know, was an open door. Well, this was what the great minisry wanted, so we did it. We were then on a roller coaster. The limb coord loved us, but our HFC had issues with me...but he couldn't take it up the way tree for a couple years, due to our being favored by the limb guy. Others were not favored by the limb and got trashed. We saw some unbelievable dirt done to good believers, the whole Mark and Avoid thing. But where would we go? There was no other place with the TRUTH. Hubby firmly believed this. We hung in there, thinking it would get better. But it continued to get worse. Our Limb buddy got the boot. Then we were really under the microscope. I wanted to leave, but hubby wanted to hang in there--he just kept thinking it would get better, we'd just try harder etc. It got worse and worse. I didn't want a divorce--my husband was NOT the problem. Still I began making tentative plans to leave. I figured the devil spirits on the outside couldn't be worse than what we were living through in the ministry. Also, I knew some people that had left, and their children etc didn't die! I was willing to take the risk. Finally hubby decided he'd had enough. It is weird looking back on that time--the chains were all in our minds, due to the doctrine we believed had to be the truth, because it came from the one and only True ministry. I think only people that have been there can understand that. To other people--you're just nuts.

Cool Waters--heehee--when I get my hot tub I'll be happy to run a nearly nekkid group! Mr Hammeroni--gosh, now I feel like checking out the UU church just to see what they are--or are not doing! Yours must not be too pagan though, because that wouldn't look particularly secular, I wouldn't think. None of the pagan things I've gone to looked secular--except for the potlucks.

Ahh, that is so sweet. I'm glad you found each other! Congradulations to both of you!

Oakspear--the Unitarian Universalist church in my area has a statement about learning from Christian, Jewish and earth based spirituality. But I think there is also a Unitarian church, which isn't the same I'm sure!