Bramble

OMG!!! Have you forgotten that cleanliness IS godlines??? They can't put stinky unshowered filthy people who have even had toilet paper for days in their AUDITORIUM!! Think o the conduits for devil spirits that will draw!!!

I liked Tara better--she was sensible and nurturing. I think Spike shoulda stollen her away from Willow and forgot about the whole Buffy love thing. They should have hired me to write the show!

Hmmm, then I guess the west coast will be the next to go--all those dam New Agers and Wiccans live there. Organized ones, too, with buildings and campgrounds and stuff. And Denver--hoo doggy, there are some pagan types there--watch out! North Dakota should be safe. Deadwood, SD has a wild Mardi Gras festival, with gambling, too. I'd cross South Dakota off the safe list.

Hmmm--wiccas. Maybe he is a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan? Seem to recall that sometimes they called witches wiccas on Buffy.

When my husband talked to the LC about our leaving TWI, the LC's big gun was "What about your children? You'll be outside the hedge of protection." What a cruel group.

Well, maybe he's not recruiting. Maybe he just wanted to fight with the not-like-him-s so he could look like hot $hi+ in his little group. Bragging rights and all that.

I went to my first Rock from my home state of Montana. In eastern Montana the soil is heavy clay (called gumbo) and it clumps. If you are walking, you get taller and taller until your shoes get pulled off.If you're driving on a frozen dirt road that thaws due to the chinnook and turns to mud, the mud clumps around your tires, filling the tire wells, until the car quits running. School kids in the country have mud days, not snow days. The mud in Ohio was so different. It was like cold cream, so slick. I saw some young guys slipping in it on purpose my first Rock, before they tossed down the corn cobs. It was all very foreign to me!

I think it was a case of such deep selfishness that some really didn't care about other people, and gleefully found and twisted Bible verses to give themselves power and leverage over others. An innie told me not too long ago that my former HFC likes to play politics. Yes he did, politics to give him power over people.

dmiller, dmiller--you haven't spent much time with middleschool aged girls, have you. If all parties come out with hair and appendages attached and hide in their room's in a huff for three or four hours writing 'I So Hate You' poetry, then I'm pretty happy. I figure they'll be good friends in about 15 years.

I don't care if people 'recruit,' though in RL I feel door knockers are annoying and invading my personal home/space. For some Christians that is an important part of their belief system, so I can be nice while I ask them to leave. But the people here have already heard the VPW message! It's not like we haven't taken the class like 20 times. And reproof for some of us with unpfalbelieving ways just doesn't work any more. Things just aren't like during the Reign of Terror where nastiness and anger got results. What I don't care for is the recruiter's animosity toward those that have rejected or just don't want his message and the whole--I can treat you like dirt, misquote you etc because you don't matter--attitude. But then, that attitude will get him few new recruits, I'm thinking. People just aren't feelin' the love.

Bliss, I understand the need to stay involved until you can exit as a couple. I did that. I wanted out for several years but hubby wanted to stay(" Where else would we go?") At the time he wanted to raise the kids in the Word. Things were really ugly then--mid to late nineties. I didn't harp on it, but I would sometimes say something to try to make him see sense. One of the issues was our HFC and Hubby had been great friends way back in the old days. Hubby just didn't want to believe this guy was so warped. I had seen several other divorces in our branch, and the enmity between the ex spouses was just sick and fueled by the leadership, a very poor situation for children. I did not see any advantage to that situation at all. Hubby finally did see it, HFC showed his dislike of me a little to obviously...we saw how loving our earthy family, who we rarely saw, was to us and our kids...we remembered what it was liked to be loved.

My opinion-- TWI taught people how NOT to function in society, how to avoid the local community instead of being a vital part of it like churches are. Also, to avoid neighbors who didn't want the Word...no friends. Family members who chose not to be TWI were shunned, and many TWI activities happened on traditional family holidays, to further isolate people, or put them on the 'hot seat.' When TWI folk had a health or financial crisis, they were reproved and the fellowship/branch etc did very little to help--unless they were leadership, of course. Regular folk had to ask their earthly families to help out while they recovered from surgery etc. Where we were, couples who had a baby better plan on making plans with earthly family for help, because the fellowship wouldn't organize even a bucket of chicken--unless you were leadership, of course. I have certainly seen how different other religious groups handle such things as this with their people. Heck, there are even civic groups that band together to help their members! I've seen internet forums do stuff, too.How they provide comfort in bad times, and rejoicing and help in happy times, like births. Outside TWI, taking time for one's family is seen as loving and natural, not a weakness and a turn toward the dark side.

Well, I know the prospect of being hacked to death by an army of True Believers makes me want to embrace that religion! Not.

I've reached my conclusion----> troll. I could be wrong...I've been wrong before...20 yrs in TWI...

Allan, if you are going to quote me, then do so. THAT WAS NOT A QUOTE FROM MY POST. YOU ARE A LIAR. Actual cut and pasted quote: I don't know any actual satanists, nor do they hang out on the type of pagan forums I hang out on...but my understanding is that their definition of satan differs greatly from the Christian definition.I would have to study up on it and don't have the time or interest. End Quote IF you have any integrity, ALLAN, you will apologise and change your post. I'm not holding my breath.

SHeesh Belle--you're gonna make certain posters sh!+ bricks!

Very true, mstar1. I know that woman pastor of a mainline denom in my area is into feminist theology etc. I went to her Mother's Day service. Very interesting sermon. We sang "Faith of our Mothers."

Belle--if you are a social liberal, then somehow Belief o matic will put you as neo pagan, even though that may not be your religious area.

Since Oakspear is gone I will put out one educational post, since I know most exway (and TWI)are not familiar with pagan terminology--and since terms are being used incorrectly-- Wicca-- a nature religion with duality--god/goddess and a yearly cycle of celebration(the wheel of the year.) Most refer to themselves as Wiccans. A Wiccan may or may not practice some form of witchcraft. They have major views on causing harm(bad, bad!), and on Returns(reaping what you sow.) Wiccans don't practice either curses or witnessing( no door to door!!) in their beliefs. They don't believe in Satan(he's not a nature god, right?) so are not satanic. Witch-- one who practices some form of witch craft, no matter what religion they belong to. Also, most who follow a goddess only belief system(not god/goddess as in Wicca)or are involved with Feminist Spirituality (womyn, wombin is often how they spell women) call themselves witches. They don't believe in satan, and don't follow him. Um, he would be a masculine entity in their view. So if you meet an actual witch, chances are good she worships a female diety and thinks satan is unimportant. I don't know any actual satanists, nor do they hang out on the type of pagan forums I hang out on...but my understanding is that their definition of satan differs greatly from the Christian definition.I would have to study up on it and don't have the time or interest. The scary witches that go around performing curses on good people, like in fairy tales and movies--never met one or found one on a forum. Doubt many exist. Well, I could see some teenage kids who want to be scary and shocking going with this, like with the whole Goth youth thing. This being typed, I will shut up. I know certain posters are absolutley sure I'm trying to witness to y'all to turn you all into witches who curse Christians so their cow's milk dries up, and I doubt anthing I say will make a difference, because I'm a voice that WIll NOT be heard. I just find the poorly informed use of terminology grating and disrespectful. Information is so easy to get on the net. Oh--and the definitions are my own and might not be another Wiccan/pagan's definition.

I think the Way is in a honeymoon stage, lulling people back to sleep, having 'sweet' fellowship. Deep inside, some of those leaders that have caused so much hurt may even be shocked at their own actions. But eventually, when their pride or ego or ability to control the flock is somehow challenged, there'll be another witchhunt. Maybe just in time to get your young adult children,Innies, or your grandbabies... Because in the authority stucture of the Way Tree there is no way to prevent it from happening. If you are a lowly fellowship attendee, then you are at the bottom of the food chain.You Have NO Voice. Especially if you are a woman! Slam denominations all you want, Innies--but they have stuctures and protections in place so that lowly congregants can have a voice. Rotten leaders can be scrutinised in denoms. Not in TWI though. So I think it is about the same.

Very true, Oakspear. Many feel that Wiccan refers to a religion and witchcraft is a practice or craft that members of any religion can do. Even Christian. I prefer Wiccan myself unless the common definition of a certain group considers one Wiccan only if they are a member of a coven. Then I say I'm a Wiccan influenced pagan. But that's a whole nother discussion!

You know, when there's a jerk Wiccan/Pagan around, I get embarassed that everyone will think all Wiccan /Pagans are that way. Really, I feel empathy for all the genuine Christians on this board.

QUOTE] Right- teenagers who are FINE with being SCRUTINIZED???? What the HECK happened to THEM in childhood that this is acceptable?/QUOTE I know what happened to these kids. They have had to perform for their parents approval and love all their lives. They have been instilled since they learned how to crawl with fear of disobedience because of the pain involved. As teens, if they disobey their parents they are worthy of death and could be kicked to the curb. They have had few friends, many friends left abruptly because their parents were possessed. The world out side TWI has been painted as being even more black and more painful than what they have already seen of life. Their lives and view points have been carefully boxed by their parents, who are terrified of having their child outside the household. At the same time they are filled with relief and self righteousness because They are of the only true household of God with the truth in the world--and don't you dare ever leave it!

I believe there are still good people in TWI but they are frightened people intent on protecting themselves. They are taught not to perform kindnesses that they would like, for fear of encouraging weakness, they are taught to bring others fault's up for scrutiny, which has the effect of making their own life look better and keeps them out of the heat. I personally don't have alot of trust where TWI innies are concerned. They may be good people but the teachings they've absorbed and the pressure they are under make them so they are not good friends, and often not even good to their familiies due to their beliefs. The doctrine and practical habits that trickle down from the root, which I do believe is rotten, does have an effect on the little people.

Allan, I am well aware that this is not a Wiccan, pagan forum. I know how to use google to find Wiccan /Pagan forums, and belong to several. They are surprisingly well mannered compared to GSC. Do you have any proof that I have tried to change the nature of this forum and push my own beliefs? Have I told you or anyone else to shut up about your beliefs? To follow me and my beliefs? I think that the theme of any postings I have done toward you, Allan, have been in the nature of "play nice." NOT "Be Wiccan/pagan Like Me!" Sheesh. I get the impression that you really really want to find me at big fault somehow. Hmm. Reminds me of some Way leadership I dealt with a few years ago. Bullies, they were. Don't bother answering my questions. I'm done with any dialogue from you. If there was an ignore feature on this forum, I'd use it. Insults and accusations--been there, done that. It was called TWI. Maybe Twi will take you back! You sound like what they want in leadership material.