Bramble

I don't think the whole 'I was a teenaged victim of a homosexual pedator' is any kind of standard happening in the lives of homosexuals. Perhaps you should post on an evangelical Christian board, Second James. They'll tell you what you want to hear.

I hope you're honest with her Second James. We often weren't honest with all the stuff people would have to do to become'0kay' back in the Way witnessing days. I know I would think twice about baring my soul and opening my life to someone who felt I was an abombination, and that I must change something few if any people seem to be able to really change,in order to please their god and to be right with them. Not a friendship I would want. Lack of long term relationships is not necessarily a lesbian/homosexual affliction, nor can you promise her that becoming hetero will bring a long term love relationship into her life. Plenty of hetero Christians can't find or keep one, either.

Ahh--loved the personal vow. Lovely! Congratulations to you both.

Rascal-- I knew two homosexual men during my Way years. One never did get delivered, but he pretended. He had a fantasy that if he only met the perfect woman, he would get delivered...it never happened. He left during the early nineties and lives a gay life style now. The other got delivered and married a good friend of mine. She was tall, broad shouldered, slim hipped, small chest--what you might call a boyish, athletic figure. They left TWI in 89, several years later he confessed he was never really delivered, but he had bi tendencies and he found her attractive, loved her. They are still together,have a bunch of kids, but it is not the marriage she thought she would have, nor is their sex life that great( very infrequent). I know that it would be just about impossible for me to change my orientation and find women sexually attractive--but since I'm hetero, there is no pressure put on me too change. I can find women admirable, lovely...but that is not the same as physical attraction. No tinglies.

In TWI 2 homosexuality was the worst sin that could be committed. The scum of the earth. All other sin somehow came from homosexuality. There was not one good or wholesome thing about a homosexual, it colored every aspect of their lives, they were filth, fit to die. It just ain't so. IMO

I can't see how being a lesbian is detrimental to a life. They can make healthy choices or unhealthy ones, just like heteros. As far as I can see, the most detrimental part about being a lesbian is from without--the people who consider them unacceptable, a pervert and sinner who must change to be acceptable or to be worthy of love or friendship. I know if I was a lesbian, I would be very careful about who I let in to my life.

Second James, I know several lesbians, one couple I consider friends(I work with one daily.) They are early/mid twenties, one takes medication to control seizures she's had since childhood. They are crazy about soap operas(record them) and scrapbooking. Another friend once had a child in my preschool, we have little in common--she's a staunch Roman Catholic, very conservative, has bucks-- but she is very lonely, and I occasionally go out to eat with her, or to a craft show, and one of my kids babysits for her now and then. I'm one of maybe three people who know she's a lesbian, one other being her 'best friend' who lives in another state. They 'lapse' and have a vacation together every year, somewhere nice, like Cancun. Sonny boy goes out to Grandpa's ranch. Forty something,no real health problems--some skier's knee. Likes eliptical trainers and thinks I should try one but her health club is waaay out of my budget. She's concerned about her elderly parents, I can relate. Her parents have no clue about her being a lesbian. Another is my neighbor's niece, who does neighbor's yard work(neighbor is undergoing treatment for cancer). Thirties, out of the closet, spiked hair, chains, tattoos. She works in a nursing home and seems robust. Likes coffee, and metal music--has much more in common w/ my hubby than with me. Neighbor is very thankful for niece's help. Lesbian's are just as individual as anyone else, some have health issues, some don't. Being lesbian is just one aspect of their lives. The ones I know seem like decent people with 'normal' lives and goals, other than being lesbian.

My July 4th 'freedom' class cost $200. Took months to save for.I was a college kid with a restaurant job. Sheesh--I should have known then.

The Cortwrights have a large section of ex way folk you can find by name or by state. You can add yourself if you wish to be found.

I don't think being dependant on the governmnet or coming from a family of welfare dependants, or being too poor to move is worthy of a death or near death sentence, or the horror of losing friends, family, homes, pets and all belongings. Sorry, I just can't put a happy face on this.

I wonder if they are even helping their own people? Or if they are just reproving them? We were in a tornado once while in TWI, when my kids were really small and I was at home. Trees everywhere, no electricity, hubby still had to go to work so getting the trees cleaned up was a mess. Red cross fed us( snacks and water from a truck, and Mc D coupons for meals). For a week. And the lesbian nurses across the street gave me their cell phone because they were worried about me and the kids and all the old ladies in the neighbor hood being with out a phone. But we were excused from fellowship for the week, so we could get our lives in order. Don'tcha feel the love.

Oakspear: Yup, that's the TWI we left.

My daughters were in the 10--11yr range when they began to be more selective of their friends. Before that they would play with anyone, even kids that put them down or later 'betrayed' them.(My kids' word, not mine.)There are plenty of mean girls out there, their job is to learn to identify them and say buhbye. It helped alot to learn this in 4th and 5th grade, even though it was hard and there were lots of tears and 'I hate school' mornings. Finally they began using caller ID to screen their phone calls and if a particular neighbor girl came over they met her at the door and said they were busy and couldn't play, shut door. I thought we would go through the same trauma when they started middleschool a year or so later, but guess what? They made friends who were nice kids who treat them well--boys and girls-- without any hitches. Now we're starting to enter the romantic phase--hopefully those skills will carry over.

There were some pretty boys, too. The Wows that got me into the class were all guys( I married one of them after my own wow year)and everyone they brought to twig was a girl. Go figure. Of course the girls all had romantic interests(including me), the wow guys could brush them off with 'babe in the Word' stuff or 'I was just ministering to your heart' stuff. Nowadays I would see that as being deceived. Dates, dinners, long walks, hand holding, a few kisses that weren't of the twig variety, long backrubs. Sure looked like courting behavior to me. I was the only one of that group that didn't get the ol' brush off after the class. Such a success story. (Hmmm. Twenty years in TWi, through the martinfool years. Hmmm.)

The not finding fault part--that ended, big time!

Some sites have a 'Karma' feature where you can add karma points to a poster and then leave a little message about why you did, what you liked, felt empathy about or whatever. Very positive and nice to receive..

Something those of us that are far away and don't have much extra money can do is to donate blood.

An ignore feature would be very nice.

Lovely pie chart!

My dad did use the 'space suit.'It was the same type people buy to lose weight. He did weekly sunlamp treatments, which seemed to help. He was retired and in the summer spent many hours outdoors on the golf course every day --he was sure that helped. His skin did get worse in the cold, dry winter. You are right about the methatrexate and liver. Dad quit using it because they had to do liver biopsies and my dad was allergic to local anesthetics, which made a needle biopsy too dangerous or painful. He was just beginning to look into grain related things that Dilva mentioned, when other serious health problems flared up.

My dad had very severe psoriasis due to radiation exposure(he was on the USS Fall River during A bomb testing, then later did some sight seeing in Nagasaki, Japan. Took pictures with his Browning automatic camera--we have the photo album, it's probably hot)! Following Japan he was in a Naval Hospital for nearly six months, since his case was so severe he had internal organ issues. He got a medical discharge due to psoriasis. The Navy guys on his ship didn't know that radiation was deadly. For many years he took methatrexate(usually a cancer drug) which can have severe side effects, but he seemed to tolerate it well. It kept his skin nearly normal, and he mourned when they had to take him off of it. I hope the new drug works well for you!

Yup, WW, that is kind of how I see it.

Here's a quote from Levay since Levay and Satanism have popped up here a few times. I'm no expert, since this is not my religion. "People, even those who consider themselves 'practitioners of the Old Religion,' can't conceive of a philosophy beyond Christianity, beyond good against evil. It's like 'worshipping the Devil.' We don't worship Satan, we worship ourselves using the metaphorical representation of the qualities of Satan. Satan IS the name used by Judeo-Christians for that force of individuality and pride within us. But the force itself has been called by many names. We embrace Christian myths of Satan and Lucifer, along with Satanic renderings in Greek, Roman, Islamic, Sumerian, Syrian, Phrygian, Egyptian, Chinese, or Hindu mythologies, to name but a few. We are not limited to one deity, but encompass all the expressions of the accuser or the one who advocates free thought and rational alternatives by whatever names he is called in a particular time and land. It so happens that we are living in a culture that is predominatly Judeo-Christian, so we emphasize Satan. If we were living in Roman times, the central figure, perhaps the title of our religion, would be different. But the name would be expressing and communicating the same thing. It's all context." Free thought, rational alternatives--not TWI like to my thinking.

Perhaps Levay could be found in the self indulgence seen by some leaders, but his principles(which actually include kindness toward those you care about) would probably have bettered many of them if they were followed. 'Looking out for number one' in the Levay way, is not at all like 'grinding them up because you have the power' in TWI.

Rain is unnatural?? Sez who?? What about snow? Here in the Rockies snowfall amounts lead to river, lake, water table and reservoir amounts in the other seasons. It is important around here to get lots of snow in the mountains. No snow is a bad, bad thing. Of course, if you are stuck out in the snow without shelter or heat, you can die. So, does that make snow devilish, too? Heck, in Eastern Montana temps can drop to way below zero, like forty below or sixty below. You don't even need a blizzard to kill you then, the cold alone can do it. Is that devilish weather? What about the ocean? If you are stranded on the ocean with out water, you will die(unless you get some rain.) So is the ocean devilish, too? What about low humidity areas, like Montana and Wyoming? Dew isn't a big producer here. They irrigate crops with water from the snowfall.