Bramble

We had talked about leaving two years before we did, I wanted to leave but hubby didn't know where else we would go, what we would do. So we stayed and things just got worse and worse--being watched for a mistake or an error so we could jumped, the threat of loa always over our heads. Knowing the limb coord would back our HFC up, that we had nowhere to turn, knowing they(leadership) were trying to divide us(I knew, hubby didn't figure it out until the end). We spent a long vacation visiting my family, a thousand miles away from fellowship, with people who were thrilled we were there, glad we could get there(my dad was terminal). We had the best time, our kids played with my sister's kids for hours, nothing special, swimming, playing badminton. Hubby helped my dad replace the deck(actually did most of it). Low key and pleasant. It was the first time we'd really relaxed in a couple years. Then we returned to our home, the fellowship. The contrast was huge--how cold they were to our kids, to us, how demanding. They didn't love us or like us, there was no joy--which we had seen with my 'natural man' family--and we finally were able to see that. After we left the load of stress that lifted was amazing. No way we would ever go back to that.

What the writer of that letter doesn't get is the deep and abiding thankfulness exTWI feel about being FREE of that culture of bullies. Both good times and bad times are better out of TWI, away from people like that cruel letter writer and their ugly, harmful doctrine.

One of my kids painted the inside of their bedroom door to look like the Tardis. I figure I've done something right as a parent.

Great advice on finding a wel! I didn't even know where to start!

We are in the Rockies and won't be able to plant until May, and that is with cover at night and during cold snaps. Last year we had 3 hail storms in June, toward the late afternoon when noone was home to cover, so our garden never really recovered, though we picked up some overgrown plants at the garden center. Hubby bought 4 of those hanging tomato planters at the hardware store so that will be fun. I plan to plant more broccoli and green beans because they freeze well and everyone enjoys them. Lots of salad greens, too. Onions and garlic grow well, and culinary herbs. Basil for pesto. I wish we had a well! Water during gardening months gets expensive! The garden areas we started last year are not raised beds, and we've sure noticed the difference. Or maybe we'll try mulch. I've been thinking that my old house probably had a well once(built 1904) but have no idea if we could find or revamp it.

You do somthing that maks you happy, Roy. Enjoy your day!

Maybe being right or finding the right sect isn't that important. Perhaps the important part is how you treat yourself and others, no matter what label you put on it.

People post about the 'kinder, gentler sweetie pie ministry' but I don't believe it. Not while they still hold to the same doctrines about illness and death, not when they never apologise or try to reconcil with those they've hurt with their doctrine, not when they still have former members demonized for make believe issues like negative believing. Massive heart attacks are just that, massive and fast. Sometimes there is nothing anyone or medical help can do to save that life. My bro in law died of a sudden widow maker heart attack, and he'd had a physical just a month before and got a clean bill of health, a fit outdoorsy guy. Gone in minutes. The TWi expectation that you would have revelation--know the future-- to keep something from happening is bizarre and impossible for a human. Know future events? Really, we can guess guess, speculate, look at experience--but we don't know the day and hour. We can't know the future. We are humans! Insane to hold that type of expectation and to demonize those who didn't pull it off and have that 'victory'. Impossible expectations. Its like those wacko groups that withhold food from a baby because its crying. Impossible expectation, cruel and unhealthy. Then they wonder why their 3 month old weighs 7lbs and isn't thriving. Somebody must be possessed!

Don't miss how small children were treated in the branch/fellowship as one step ahead of possessed. Don't miss no system of grievance to deal with bad leadership. Don't mise fake friendly conversation after fellowship, where the co-ord was salivating to get something to hang on you. Don't miss fake friends, period.

I lost both my parents after leaving TWI, and I was thankful--not for losing them to terminal illnesses, but that we were out of TWI and didn't have to hear their cruel blame and shame spiel at that time. Sad, too, so many of the wafers are in or entering the golden years when it is not unknown to lose a spouse. What a horrible time to come down on someone and look for fault to prove their ugly doctrine.

I'm sorry about your health issues, but i agree--TWI made any health issue worse! The reproof/guilt inducing, where did you blow it crap. No support, help or compassion. One of my kids had double ear infections, strep throat and a slight case of pneumonia following a case of flu. We were of course thoroughly reamed about the flu...so when kid got even sicker we didn't say a word. No loving household believers praying for our kid to get well. I figured it would wreck my 'believing' to go through another reaming. Kid got well, and later after we left TWi, kid got tonsils removed and has rarely been ill since then.

I think the info posted by Jeff could be really helpful for someone who might be trying to get out of a a TWI group now. My kids were in early elementary school when we left, children's fellowship had been abandoned a couple years before, and though we never talked about it back then, hubby and I were uncomfortable about how our children were treated in the fellowship as if they were horrible behavior problems, while in fact they were well behaved then and now. Sitting on the floor( like STAYAWAY mentioned) and listening to a rehash of LCM's latest tape--gack, it was hard for the adults! About year after we left TWI we took the kids to Hubby's mom's Methodist church(an attempt to rebuild a relationship, too) which had a wonderful children's progam, and it was a big church where we could kind of blend in with the crowd and process on our own. WHile hubby and I are not church goers, our kids are still off and on involved in the Methodist church teen progam, which ahs a summer camp/theater experience for teens we contribute to. The biggest issue we have had with TWI child rearing is that all our kids needed to be perfect in their own eyes. This caused tears and stress in elementary school but seems to have relaxed now. I'm hopeful they have a better balance in acheiving their best vs crashing when something doesn't go well. Competitive activities actually seemed to help, because sometimes you win or a team mate they admire does, sometimes you lose, and losing isn't the end of the world.

I think there could be trade difficulties for many years with the '49'. And do you really think it could be done without violence? And where would TExas get an army and armory except by stealing from US? But you could set up a Bush dynasty,no one to stop it. SOunds like a quick jump into third world to me.

"Animal Farm" will hit some TWI nrves, too.

Unless someone's ideas about god are dangerous to others, I don't see much reason to get too excited about what someone else believes or doesn't believe. Their different belief does not change what you know or have experienced, does it? And you can't make someone else feel or experience what you feel, though you can try to express it. It's a big wide world full of many different beliefs. If someone is trying to make you feel bad or wrong about what you believe, then why engage them? You are not going to change them, they will change themselves perhaps. That is their problem. Find some place and people you can enjoy.

Ahhh, congrats!

Looks like the book issue extended beyond my branch. Odd that any movie was okay, I guess because there was a potential for witnessing. I even went to bridal showers where porn was shown, not a twitch from leadership. And there were always plenty of Way materials to study or 'retemorize.' Telling people what they could do in their own homes was so controlling, but then I was in TWI when leadership thought they should inspect your sock drawers and medicine cabinets to see if you were spiritually 'off.' I have small house and don't want more bookshelves, so I've been buying popular fiction( most anything I would buy in paperback) in ebook for the past three years or so. I read on a pda or my netbook(want a sony ereader)--but my 8 gig flash drive still has plenty of room for storage, plus the net book uses an SD card. Love the storage! 3oo books, no space on shelves. Also enjoy free cycle--when I have a box to give away, people drive to my house and haul them away.

I came from a family of bookworms. All my siblings read, they still read. Makes finding gifts real easy. After I got involved with TWI I was always busy, but I still had a paperback tucked in my purse or books stacked next to my bed. Later when I was a stay at home mom I was a regular library patron and yard sale/used book store patron too. I quickly learned to hide my stacks of books. LCM occassionally read a mystery, and then everyone would go get THAT mystery. It was as if they were afraid to pick out their own reading material. A woman in our branch in the late eighties got reproved for the paperbacks in her living room. She was disabled and reading was something she did in her long hours alone in her house, but that did not matter. Believers cleaned her house(she paid them) so her home was not her own. She left TWI, I hope she has her stacks of books handy. Years later one of my kids received an award for reading the most books in their class ( these were read outloud). They gave kid a plaque which we took to fellowship to celebrate this accomplishment. Big whoop. I guess a 6 year old should be accomplished in other areas(we had the only little kids in that fellowship, most were never parents or kids were grown). Was it just my area that had this attitude? Did other encounter it in their areas?

In TWI-think, airing dirty laundry is worse than producing dirty laundry. The True Believers with the greatest truth about God since the first century church must appear perfect, especially to outsiders. You can do atrocious things to your fellow believers with out repercursion--unless someone blabs. It is the acknowledgement and speaking up that is truly evil in their warped minds.

Sounds like a troll or a troll--at--heart, Jeff. You do have a life, you are moving on and overcoming terrible loss. Plus your posts could very well reach someone who needs to make a decision about joining a group or continuing with a group like you were in.

Robertson speaks of Haiti but I think he is subtilly telling his congregation/followers, " See what happend to the unfaithful not-like-me(s)? Gruesome death and tragedy to their families. Hell on Earth. They deserved this with their wrong faith." Fear motivation. Maybe donations have slipped in the bad economy.

My opinion about leaders in TWi--it was a perfect position for bullies. They knew deep inside that their behavior wouldn't fly in the real world--people would call them on it in the workplace etc. But in TWI the peasants had no voice, unless they were lucky to be related or good friends of a big wig ministry person. So if a leader made it their business to drive some poor believer out of TWI, there was no one who would question them. And the lock box kept everything nice and tidy. I did get lucky(ha!) with the kids. Donna Martindale made a tape about child rearing and mentioned kid's bedtimes. That tape was taken like the absolute infexible Word o God in my area, so my kids quit going to fellowship since they had to be in bed early! So we only took they to the occasional fellowship or branch meeting our last couple of years IN.

I did hear from an innie(might have been a year or year and a half ago) that things were so 'sweet'. I didn't ask what that meant, but I assumed it meant there was less reproof and people weren't being kicked out or put on Leaves of absence, etc, which was they way things were when we left. BUT the two leaders who caused us so much grief are still in, and still leaders. I wouldn't trust them as counselors or advisers, nor would I want them influencing my children. I suspect that leaders are still to be obeyed.

Interesting. I'll be starting allergy testing in February to try and get a grip on asthma which has been out of control for several months. Also have bouts of excema etc, and arthritis in knees, but pain comes aand goes. We already know about some food allergies, all tree related(have lot of tree allergies). Will be good to find out.

...he was the devil spirit hidden in your dust bunnies