Bramble

Rascal, I agree. Every act we were to perform, every new leadership control device--the budgets we were supossed to keep, which leadership could have access too, the schedules, two byb two etc. were tied in tidy TWI teachings with the 'new 'stuff neatly added to old familiar Bible verses we'd heard many times before. Protection of the household, planning the adversary out of our lives...

I got into the Word during this time. I was teaching country school, but in '83 went wow because how could I get married and be a good wife if I didn't go and grow on the wow field? My wow year was a bit of a shock. Two people in my wow family were from the same area, and I guess things were much more legalistic in that area(Atlanta). So we had conflict the entire year about legalism, following orders etc. When I first got into the Way I thought women and men were on an equal footing, with women clergy etc. I learned differently my wow year though. Both my wow brothers were 'courted' by the leadership, given special attention, assisted him in classes etc, and heavily pressured to go into the corps. My wow sis and I were expected to 'keep house' for our wow brothers. They did no housework the entire year. Gossip and tattling was a big issue. When one of our new PFAL girls told me she was pregnant and planned to have an abortion, I knew things would go haywire if she told anyone else.She did have the abortion, it was her decision, only she, the guy and I knew about it, which was dam near a miracle.

Thanks act2, you're sweet. Also thanks excathedra for understanding. As for Mr Lingo, I think his exchange here exemplified alot of what I saw in the corps in the last decade in TWI. They would have their vision of reality--even if it was wrong--then attempt to reprove and control the little people to conform to their vision, because, dammit, their view had to be obeyed, because it was theirs. Meh. Here we have the ignore feature.

Then there's the old Sandra dee movies-- Ta-a-mmy, Ta-a-mmy, Taaaammy's in loooove...

A common recruitment tool was our own youth and cuteness. How many cute guys brought tons of girls to twig and vice versa? Many times when I was single we girls dressed up cute and went to clubs and bars to witness, reel in some guy who was looking for a girlfriend and try to get him to twig... I know I hurt more than one guys feelings with my 'go to twig, I'm not interested in you except as a babe in the Word' stuff. It wasn't honest, I had an agenda I didn't come right out with from the very beginning.

Um, those were the nice corps I met. The guy who counselled us about debt was nice. He cared--he was wrong, but his intention was to help us. Didn't scream, didn't belittle or threaten us with scary consequences. We had 3 kids under the age of two, everything was scary at that point. We were faithful twig coordinators with a big need, he wanted to help. He liked us--we even ran a class during the fog years, yay us, so we were part of the rebuild the way efforts, along with him. He was a True Believer of TWI doctrine. I don't know if he is still nice. I didn't post about the other kind of way Corps I've met, the non nice ones. I could tell a few stories there. My experience of the Way International was overwhelmingly negative, and it affected every part of our lives, not just our finances. I was so relieved to finally leave. Most of the really terrific, truly caring people I have met and loved in life were either not religious or of Roman Catholic background. Sorry I screwed up your thread, Acts2. I no longer believe it is wicked to speak a negative, so don't pay much attention to positive/negative.

That was my good way corps story, Johnny Lingo. They were friends for a while, seemed like great people with great heart. We stayed in the Way because of some of them. Sorry it didn't turn out Rah Rah enough for your thread.

Excathedra, I guess they were caught up in their situations. I do believe they went in with a heart to serve and take care of people... I do suspect they thought they were protecting us, the small town twig leaders with the little happy twig. We had people that drove 50ml one way every Sunday to go to fellowship because they no longer had a twig leader in their towns. I guess they didn't want to shake it up. Instead it got thoroughly ground up in the nineties. I do know the limb guy who counselled us to sell our house and move to the HOT limb city was sincere. Stupid, but sincere. He really believed that was the magic formula for taking care of some huge medical bills (we had crap insurance and I had complications with a delivery, thwap, $20k.) But then, when it didn't work and we were the ones who struggled for years to make rent, ABS, feed the family, pay the medical bills(hospitals will sue for non payment, ya know?) Plus we were no longer on the good believer list... My husband is still angry (really angry, as in don't even mention the Way)about it, all those years of Absing when we could have been putting that money to medical bills, while LCM wore suits that cost $3K and was sending his gals on shopping sprees. All those years of stress with the extra scrutiny we had to take because we were in major debt. Heck, if we'd been sane we would have taken a second mortgage. A new 4 lane highway was coming passed our little town, subdivisions were being planned, housing prices in the little city went way up a few years later. And we knew about the 4 lane and the subdivision! We got the 20k paid off the year that child started school.

The ceremony described here sounds like the initiation I went through in college for Thespian(drama) society). We didn't eat anything hot, though, but had a blind fold on, and everyone wore old black robes from the costume room.It was purely fun My dad was a regional director for a fraternal organization( Loyal order of Moose) which did alot of rituals and ceremonies in robes and little hats etc. I witnessed a few in college because dad would travel and pick me up on a trip to take me home. Man, going to Dad to a polka night in Havre, Montana, what a memory. Most of them had a bar and a Ladies lounge, where I was supposed to hang out, but I watched a couple rituals...solemn, all about protecting the herd stuff, very symbolic with hand motions. Guys with small town jobs in feed stores and gas stations dressed in velvet robes, being all mysterious... It was probably fun for those guys though. Seemed religious to me.

Hey Morgan, we did it too. We got to pay capital gains tax plus a higher monthly amount in rent than our mortgage, too, so we could get financially blessed. That was how we were counselled as the godly way to take care of some big medical bills--get rid of the mortgage(bad, bad!), move to the limb where the word was HOT, and all would be well. We were such suckers! In case you're wondering, it didn't work. We were in a finacial quagmire for YEARS, which did not endear us to TWI leadership. Our finances are healthy now.

I did know some great Way Corps through the years. I was in nearly 20 years, left late nineties. Great Way corps in our area was why Hubby and I decided to stay with TWI in 1989. In fact, an imapssioned teaching from the twig area coord/friend of the 'TWI saved my life' variety was pivotal to our staying in.We saw our dear friends move up in TWI world, become limb leaders, move to HQ...one was on the President's cabinet. We were happy for them, they were great people. Now while they were moving up in TWI, we were stuck with over zealous LCM wannabe leadership in a place our ol'buddies would never ever even visit again. We'd hear rarely from our ol'corp friends...we were in different levels of TWI ranking now. We might have a 5 minute conversation at an Advance or ROA--not a friendship, really. When we could no longer take the crap and left, a TWI friend did call me. She actually believed my sad story about our struggles with Leadshi+ X , she had managed to get out of our fellowship and get into the other one in our area, because she didn't like the crap from Mr.X. She tried to persuade me to contact my old buddy now on the president's cabinet at HQ, to bring in the big gun and shoot it at the local leadership so we could 'stand' with TWI. I knew it wouldn't help. We'd still be under constant scrutiny.We just wanted to be out of it. Our ol' budies are out now...we have never felt like contacting them, or they, us. In a sense, I feel betrayed by them, because they knew(as I've heard through the grape vine) so much more than we did back in 1989 and then in all the following years. Heck we never had access to POP until we found it here, never heard of the Adultery papaer... If they were friends, why didn't they say, "Run away, move on, find a safe harbor?" They said nothing, I think, because we really weren't that important, our lives could be shredded while they played the Way leadership game with more important players. We left after nearly 20 years in with No exway friends, just a few aquaintences. Everyone through the years that I thought was a dear friend of the heart turned out to be not that at all.

Who'd want everlasting life at that price? What ugly memories that verse brings to mind! Who would want to follow a God/leader/man/whatever who taught that? Yuck.

I was once at a bridal shower that ended up at aChippendale dance. Judging from what I saw, the Farm will get plenty of business.! One of the dancers sat down at my table, a cute guy in his early twenties. He was homesick. We asked why they wore so much oil and he said it made their skin look good under the lights, plus, women thought twice about hugging and grabbing them because the oil would ruin their clothes.

There was a book--spiral bound, probably self published. I think it was called In the Days of Peleg. Can't remember the author, but he lived somewhere around Bozeman mT, that's where we ordered the book from. I guess someone gave it to LCM and he liked it.

Rascal, I can certainly relate to what you experienced. There was literally no time for anything other than ministry activities, work, housekeeping etc. If you liked to garden, or participate in sports, or read books etc--there was no time. We had retemories, the tapes and mags to 'work,' at least one teaching (each spouse)a week to prepare, based on the tapes, mag or WAP class, not to mention the cross town drive, so that the one hour household fellowship took the entire evening. Advanced class grads had a schedule for reworking the Advanced class materials, too.Then there was the limb home to help with on the weekends, the refreshments to bake. Oh, and witnessing nights not on a fellowship night, so we could drag our 'fruit' to fellowship. Our earthly families were not deemed important, and even worse, if you had young children, leadership was impatient with the time and needs they had. They wanted convenient children, the kind who don't wiggle or cry or get sick on fellowship nights, who don't have homework or t ball or any other time consuming thing that might keep a parent from a fellowship. Once we left we started to find the interests we once held, like gardening, camping...

I love the holidays! Growing up, my father was crazy about Christmas( not the religious part, he wasn't a religious man) probably because he grew up in orphanages and foster homes in the thirties, so didn't have any celebrations as a kid. I love the things we do--baking and decorating cookies, making fudge, making 'plucket' for Christmas morning(cinnamon roll balls in an angel food cake pan), shopping for presents, putting up the decorations, lights, candles. We always had a big dinner (still do) with the brocade and crystal and wine, nice clothes, played games...it was fun! In TWI I was always homesick if we couldn't get to my parent's home for the holidays. Hubby's family did only a tree and presents, none of the other stuff, no dressing up, no pretty table. TWI in our area did nothing, so at least we could be with our families. But that always seemed cold and barren compared to what my family shared. In the nineties I did get reproved for taking my kids up to visit Gram and Gramps(It was a long trip.) Not a spiritual priority, you know! I'm glad I didn't listen, soon after that Christmas both my parent's health failed, but that last Christmas they were feeling good and so enjoyed all the little kids. We give presents, but we never have gone overboard on the money, so I've never had the experience of paying in January for the fun in December. I'm not Christian, but most of the things I love about the holidays had nothing to do with Christianity. I do like Christmas carols, though, especially old ones.

I agree with Digitalis-- LCM will return(they are still using his heavy revy class and book) full of stories about his GREAT journey of repentance, that makes him even more the MOG. Plenty of the innies that are left are sure it was a one time affair, and Donna will be lauded as a great Christian wife who stood by her man!.

Target was doing wake up calls this morning. We didn't participate in the shop a thon, but I did get a nice garland at Ace Hardware. We are decorating today. My kids all want electronic stuff, cds or music downloads, jewelry and computer games. I'm thinking of wrapping cash then taking them to the mall after Christmas! SInce they adore the mall, it would probably be fun for them.And I can sip a soda and read abook in the food court while they run around.

QUOTE: The Ministry was a LOT like New Orleans after the hurricane, leveled and hurting. Now many Way people would say that spiritually New Orleans brought it on themselves, just like Sodom & Gomorrah and if that is the case, then it could be reasoned that The Way Ministry had the same thing happen to them and were (in that same sense)spiritually deserving of it. Although we are not supposed to be joyful when bad things happen, at what point can we justify the relief and the true THANK GOD! feeling that we had when the spiritual hurricane leveled The Way ministry. I feel they had it coming and I hope the people who hurt me spent just as much time in tears and in frustration as I did. Now that it’s mostly done and justice has been served, I can move on. I can forgive the emotional rapists because justice was served. Now don't get me wrong, I am NOT against the ministry, nor do I want it to fall or fail. However, the cancer of pride, anger and lust for money and power corrupted many people and that was the welcome wagon to the d.s. realm to rack & ruin the ministry and what I mean by rack & ruin is not just the ministry in it's corporate HQ in Ohio but in it's members in particular. The people like me (and most of you) who were victims of the abuse. It’s terrible, just terrible what has happened but can a phoenix rise from the ashes? I believe it can. I think it is changing because it HAS TO change.END QUOTE The leaders I knew who did so much harm to people are still IN and still in their leadership positions, not flattened and eliminated by their own evil. They could be YOUR current leadership! People like myself are STILL M&A. It wasn't the creeps who got eliminated from the ministry! They are still there. Are you sure you were M&A following leaving the Corps, and not just on probation or a loa? Some probation/loa people were not to have contact during their probation/loa time frame. My undestanding is that --if we wanted to go back to fellowship--we would have to contact the creep who M&A'd us( who is still a region coord), do whatever restitution for our weaknesses( which was basically that we didn't want our Household Fellowship coord--who is still a coord--to be actual head of OUR family, able to make decisions both personal and financial for us, two adults with children), do whatever he demands and be on a type of probation before we would be allowed back into the 'household'. If they have learned so much about why they were so wrong, and know they hurt people, why aren't these now godly leaders contacting people to try to heal the damage they did? Most of us are easy to find on the internet white pages. Haven't heard of any. No offense, Thin Lizzy, but your view sounds like a fantasy not based in TWI reality. I have no interest in returning to TWI, but even if I still believed the PFAL doctrine I would not, because I wouldn't want my kids involved in a group that could turn on them, like we saw TWI do to us and many others..

The Advanced Wap class was exhausting I thought. Or maybe it was the huge fee we had to pay to stay in a motel for the whole thing. Plus we had seen some pretty ugly stuff in the past couple of years, so were no longer so rah rah way. What, a couple thousand dollars spent for a class--with absolutely nothing of any use to show for it. Little plastic name tag. We did see a great increase in pressure on our private lives once we were WAP ADV grads. Unpleasant. I wouldn't get too comfortable if I was IN. I doubt they've changed the "man of god for our day and time" doctrine--if they can find one, they'll have another... pipeline to God and all. Makes them more special than other groups. Then you'll be hopping to his particular tune. New classes to pay for etc. New hoops. Doubt they've changed the structure of authority, or the 'obey your leaders' doctrine... Doubt that there is any way to handle a poor or manipulative or even mentally ill leader. You innies just have to watch your fellow believers drop like flies and hope like He!! you're staying under the radar, because it could be you next. Other churches--there are procedures set up to deal with situations like that. Doubt you have any voice at all inside TWI. Doubt that TWI discloses their financial records like real churches do. Doubt they allow actual discussion on doctrine rather than the Word is what we say the Word is. Doubt you can safely go to your innie friends and speak of any doubts you might have about the ministry without risking being tattled on. Doubt that any lowly twiggie/advanced class grad has any kind of voice to bring about change. Doubt that any actual leaders within TWI are contacting people who's lives they crushed to say sorry, I was wrong...haven't heard of even one(though I have heard of some who've left that have done that.) IMO the structure of leadership in TWI rewards manipulators and contollers, while loving and compassionate folk get chewed and spit out, people that want to right a wrong get demonized. Got a call from an innie not too long ago, one who had been in our twig back when we ran one many years ago. This innie thought that maybe the Way got a little too carried away with interference in private lives and also thought mark and avoid was carried out too much(six years since we left and had last spoken). I was very glad to hear that none of Innie's children, who I adored when they were in our twig, and are now all grown up, will have anything to do with TWI. I told Innie to be thankful for that--none of them would end up being ground up at some future time by some 'loving' leader.

Well, some stuff from the ninties kind of blurrs together, but here is a timeline as I remember it. 1990--Leadership tapes/Galations tapes. At first only twig corrds and corps heard them. LCM's explanation for why so many left. Those ran around for a year or more-- I heard them twice. Early nineties: Advanced class specials started to really be pushed. Lucky for me i was a nursing mom for years. 1993/94 Big get out of debt/mortagages are sin push. Being good wafers we sold our little, affordable house, and moved to the'hot' limb city where there was nothing in our price range, so I went back to work nights(but not twig--err, fellowship--nights). We had to quit running a twig at this point, and yay, got to pay capital gains tax on the sale of our house. We were incredibly poor for a while. I think LCM received his big revvie of WOW around here. 1995, Last ROA. The homopurge, poor people purge etc all were in full effect around this time. ROA was a class--and there was truly no point for me and preschool kids to be there. WAP( though that might have been earlier, because I have few memories of WAP) Many people in the branch left or were kicked, all M&Aed. Reproof, ugly reproof of the screaming variety, was common. Don't embarass your leadership is the lesson learned there! Because that's what really set them off--they got their bohunkis chewed by higher leaders. 1996-- began hearing horrible things about Way Corps, then mark and avoid really got going. Believers quit taking pictures of each other, cuz you just had to rip them up anyway.Many people we knew were on probation or Leave of Absence now. Sometime around here--big money/budget business.Expected to tithe more than 10% way Corps full time??? Can't remember. But we still cleaned and did yard work for the fukll time guys. No longer offering Children's Fellowship at branch or Limb meetings. 1997 Big Announcement--LCM was making the WAP advanced class. Seems in fellowship we followed a guidline on teaching--one from wap class, one from Mag, one from tape EVERY WEEK. Boring. Much talk of slothfulness and hardheartedness. 1998 Advanced class at HQ. WE had to go because we missed the others. Huge price tag( we had to have a motel for 2 weeks), exhausting to the brain material( nothing K.I.S.S. about this class), and the lovely song,"Wash your feet in the blood of the Wicked" 1999--two by two, schedules a week in advance, home inspections, budget inspections. Then, Y2K preparations, including a list of every item in your home, its location, and even your perscription meds. The thought of spending that much crisis time with current leadership made me feel physically ill. I suspected in a crisis, me and my kids would get the short stick."Why stay here in the big city," i plead to hubby. "Why not move back to my hometown. I'm related to mountain folk who chop wood, butcher their own elk, know where to ice fish and pick huckleberries. They even bow hunt. Make their own jerky. Plus, many firearms." Even more control from leaders. We leave TWI. We eventually move to my hometown. We now make jerky. April 2000 we hear about LCM stepping down for adultery. edited for spilling.

I guess I don't get it. Our school sends home weekly grades and deportment reports--I know if they were late to science etc. . I don't get on them unless it is a D due to missing or late assignments--which I learn about by questioning child. If the class material is really a problem, they need help/tutoring from the teacher, which our school offers. I transport. Their grades are always back up by the next report. I can also track them on a school grade website, but I don't bother with that--the weekly print out is enough If my kids goof off in school (I have junior high aged kids) and get a bad grade, they lose computer, phone, grounded etc. Plus many of their classes offer extra credit work if they want to raise a grade, which I expect them to do. That is their weekend, which is humiliating enough for them! It is pretty much what many of their peers experince, also, for a bad grade. Stuff social services won't interfere with, either, and who spanks jr high kids anyway? Mine are all larger than I! If the parent is paying attention, I don't see how a child could be totally bombing out in Jr high. Don't they get mid terms? Sounds to me as though this child's education and behavior was neglected by parent until parent was humilated enough to take it out on the kid. Like the parent who puts up with nasty sass mouth until they get fed up, and pops 'em. Nice lesson there. I can't imagine doing something that humiliating to my child, sounds like Jerry Springer stuff to me. But then, there's not much chance one of my kids would be flunking every class, either, without me being aware of it.

In the late nineties our limb coordinator did have a more modest house than the guy before him. Guy before him--rent maybe 2500/month? New guy, rent 1500/month ?-- 5 bedroom ranch with walkout, fire place, kitchen island, nice neighborhood. Still, a much nicer house than anyone else lived in except the family with the trust fund and big inheritances.

Why religion? I guess because many people have some type of unexplainable, transcendant/spiritual type experience. Not all religions are authoritarian and fear motivated.

I was close to my parents as a child and young woman. They didn't particularly care for the way, but they loved my husband. From the mid eighties to the mid ninties I went through periods where I didn't see them much because we lived so far apart and were so busy, but we called alot. In the mid nineties when things started to get ultra weird in the Way, I deliberatly decided to get closer--more visits, phone calls etc. We got some flack from leadership about visits, especially at Christmas time. We didn't talk about the Way, nor did I witness to them after the initial period after taking PFAL. They were totally uninterested in PFAL or twig. Soon after we left TWI we moved closer to my parents and sister, which was really healing for us, since they had a clue about love, family, taking care of each other, giving loved ones some space, celebrating good times together--the kind of stuff that makes life worth living. We have never told my family members much about our Way involvement--I think they think it was just a church we lost interest in. Both my parents are gone now, both died shortly after their 52nd anniversary. My sister and one brother and I are very close, we share the care of my oldest brother who is mentally ill.