Bramble

Sometime back in the nineties(I think around the time of the unveiling of WAP) we were told that teachings were going to be different. Since we need to build 'grooves' in our brains or something, there was going to be a lot of repitition. The repitition is still happening. I guess brains are still not grooved!

I guess living through the nineties pretty much ruined PFAL and other Way doctrines for me. It's something I just want to distance myself from. I'm sure I would feel entirely differently if I'd left in the eighties as part of the exodus.

In the nineties there were a few ways to avoid the leadership heat. One way was to be well off. A trust fund was best, because then the believer didn't have a pesky job to interfere with ministry stuff. Another way to avoid the heat was to be a leader yourself, and to have good friends or relatives that backed you up in a high position. Just don't do anything to embarass them! Also, if you were a leader, a good thing to do for yourself to keep the heat off was to keep people in your fellowship that you could bad mouth to your higher leaders. This made you look spiritual and strong, because you were correcting weakness in your fellowship, just like LCM wanted!

One of the guidelines was to have a month and a half wages in cash. Yeah, we had it--not. Another suggestion was to get you doctor to prewrite prescriptions, including prescriptions for antibiotics you didn't currently need. Even if the doc would write it, we couldn't stockpile it with out spending a ton of money, because our prescription plan wouldn't approve more than a month's worth of meds at a time. And I hated--hated-- having to turn the home inventory list over to our HFC, so he could know what cupboard we kept the pillow cases in, and how many we owned. Then there was the great canned tomato debate. Tomato, being acidic would eat through cans in time. But were we stockpiling for a month or for years? No one knew. I was all for the end of life as we knew it, because I pretty much had my hubby talked into moving to Montana, with my mountain folk relatives. Sounded alot safer than trying to stay in the Big City with all the automatic weapon owning gangs--if what LCM was saying was even true. Heck, my relatives had gun cabinets full of hunting rifles, one of my brother's is a heck of a bow hunter, they can butcher their own elks, can their own huckleberries and salmon, make jerky, chop wood, the river water could be cleaned easily enough... We left before Y2K didn't hit, though, so no exciting homesteading for us.

Dot--don't know if you garden but there are alot of places on the net that carry heirloom seeds. These plants produce viable seed that you can save. There are even internet groups you can find for seed swapping, very fun.

Career advancement? Huh? What are you talking about White Dove? I'm confused. I already had a career. I was a stay at home mom. Hubby and I would have been quite happy to remain small (okay, tiny) town twig coordinators, running PFAL classes now and then, and hanging out with the other small town believers. But, alas, we had a mortgage, we had big medical bills. We were dumb enough to believe we really should take leadership's counsel, sell and move to the Big City. It was all down hill from there. How was it so easy to see the 'Truth'?

Quote, White dove: 'Sorry temple it's a biblical decision is it or is it not what the scriptures say. If you were standing for the truth as most in the way would have said they were, at least at the time. The choice was simple do what the Bible says . All other things that come into play although they might be unpleasant should not have detoured you from doing what you were claiming that is doing the word you just walk forth and believe that the power of God is greater than any threat that has no biblical truth. If ya didn't you didn't ,but that was your choice! Paul upheld the truth he knew despite being beaten. You don't see oh but they threatened me as an excuse to not uphold the truth.' Hmm, yet they taught Bible verses all about obeying--and disobedience and bad consequnces. So some of us were not so smart as you to be able to tell the True Bible verses from the Untrue Bible verses. It would have been so much simpler if we'd all been you.

When I first got involved, there were ordained women, which I thought was cool. A selling point for me. Way women didn't dress frumpy, like Penacostal women in my area did. Another selling point for the girl I was back then. Women taught and ran feloowships. But by the mid nineties we were treated like a twelve year old child, unable to make the smallest decisions for ourselves(Ask you husband, ask your husband...) We could still teach in fellowship--but our teaching had to be cleared with the HFC prior to the fellowship. There were no women fellowship coordinators in my area. I got the impression women were not to be trusted.

Quote from Temple Lady: 'But please stop telling the rest of us--whose shoes you've never seen much less put on, much less walked in-- that this was a decision somehow on par with deciding if you wanted to change jobs. It was much much more with much higher stakes.' Yup--our LC was real concerned about our kids. It is pretty chilling to hear your children might be in danger.

Oldiesman--what meeting have you ever been to where a stranger can walk in and start witnessing? That is not polite, to try to take over someone's group. The difference,between TWI and most other groups--not just Pagan/Wiccan-- is that you are free to have a difference of opinion or belief and still be part of the group. Lots of pagan groups are compiosed of people with different beliefs. No one has to bite their tongue in a conversational setting. That was not possible in TWI--you had to accept every jot and tittle as rightly divided truth and hush up if you didn't agree. Or you could leave, or you could get kicked out. You could not express your difference of opinion with out a negative consequence from leadership. But I'm sure that was not your experience.

Oldiesman, since you brought it up, I can't think of any Wiccan/Pagan group in my area where you might be able to attend regularly and where you would have a platform to do a teaching or witnessing during the group's meeting. The only meetings I've been to were workshops or rituals. Like a new person in Twig fellowship, you would not be in charge. And being disruptive would get you kicked out the living room door or backyard. Just like Twig! But if you were polite and honest( if you faked being pagan to do the witnessing thing, I don't think you'd be well received)etc you could talk to people at snack time or potlucks etc. Maybe go out for coffee. Alot of pagans don't think much of witnessing, they believe a person needs to actively seek their own path, not get persuaded to join some one else' path.

Copyrights last for the author's life plus fifty years. They cost around $35 for a book.Copyrights held by a corporation might have a different time period--I didn't reseach. If the copies are made in a country that doesn't honor copyright laws, then they can get away with swiping a copyrighted work--no law broken in that country. But it is still stealing. It seems odd that TWI would sell the copyright to their founding father's work.

Wow, this is the first I've heard where Rosie admitted openly that it was more than a one time, consensual affair. Doe TWI non corps know about this?

My only experience in someone fiddling in my marriage was in TWI. Leadership trying to put a wedge between us. My opinion on that--sick people who delighted in using their power to hurt others. Heck, they are still leaders in TWI today! I can't imagine going to a gaggle of friends and telling them all about problems in my marriage. I figure if you open your mouth and tell people all your business, then you'll have people in your business. In the multitude of counselors there is safety? Not in my experience. In my experience there is a lot more safety to be had by keeping your mouth shut and taking care of problems the best way you yourself can figure out.

We live in the Hispanic neighborhood, which seems to attract alot of door knockers. The Mormon boys have always been polite, and they are so young! I know they cleaned out the yard of one of my elderly neighbors, who is not Mormon. I've never heard of rude ones before. The JW's are pushier, try to talk religion even after you've stated you aren't interested, plus they engaged my eleven year old in a long conversation, which I really don't agree with. My husband was home, out in his shop, they should have asked to speak with an adult, IMO. The JW's also returned another time and asked for my eleven year old by name, but this time I answered the door. I told them my child was not supposed to talk with strangers.

I don't know if perfectionism is a path to apathy, but it could be a path to depression, for never ever measuring up. Or a path to rebellion, like Rascal and her house. I think we felt much the same as she did in dumping the house standards that couldn't be lived up to, anyway, when we left the Way. What was the use of trying, anyway? Probably a good lesson in parenting in there somewhere.

WW--Oakspear was quoting johniam. And johniamm--just another good reason to be Wiccan, IMO.

I think if you live in a high crime area, you probably don't have a lot of money. Plus you might work a low paying but still exhausting job. Your grocery bill might involve a lot of potatos, rice, 4/$1 mac and cheese, ramen soup. Fruit and veggies can get pretty pricey. Lean meat? Boneless skinless chicken breasts? yeah, sure. More likely hamburger in a tube and hotdogs. I've never really lived in a high crime area, but I have fed a family on a low budget. The heaviest I ever weighed was when we were the poorest. Haven't bought mac and cheese in a box since we left TWI.

Jeez, what is it about getting on the wife's case? Hubby and I split week night fellowships because we had kids in primary grades who needed to be in bed before 9. And with the fellowship after the fellowship, and the 30 min drive time, there was no way. Hubby would go to fellowship and come back all smiles. I would go to fellowship and get grilled or confronted about something--any stupid little thing. No good buddy stuff for me! It took hubby two years to see and believe this was happening. If he was around, HFC's were friendly and gracious.

I was in a wow family that was sent to be spiritual light to a city that had had a factory close--like half the city was out of work. Neither of my apprentice corps wow bros could keep a job. Neither of them could keep their pants zipped, either. In fact they both did a couple of the same girls. I complained about this to a local corps gal--Oh, but they're men. Plenty of peanut butter and baloney in our house. My wow bros also didn't have to help clean the house--it was good training for marriage for two single wow sisters and would build our believing to get married yadayadayuck, according to area coord.( I wasn't engaged on my wow year because of the gravity of the wow commitment but already had the guy).

Nice post, Rascal. I've had many of those same thoughts. If the word taught in TWI was so powerful and healing, the all truth for all people everywhere, why did it produce such cruel people?

I wonder why they don't just redo PFAL, with some new teachers, tweaking? Seems like most of the people still IN are old timers. Many of them may stay because they loved PFAL so. I would think there would be huge rejoicing if it was brought back, so their kids could take it etc. Seems silly to ne to use anything of WAP. I guess they are still enthralled by LCM.

I had those earth shoes. I also had lord boards, those sandals that wrapped all the way up your calves. And the high platforms, the lethal ones where you could fall off and hurt your ankles. I had Hash jeans, from Canada--the extra wide bell bottoms. I had a pair of those ladie's bib overalls that had the zipper all the way down the front, through the crotch and up the back, very racy. I had the cutest pink print polyester pant suit, with a halter top and that little frilly apron thing in front that hung down to your waist. For hot dates, ya know? And some of those Indian gauze buttoned shirts that shrunk right away. I was fashion's b!+ch.

I spent twenty years in TWI and left, I figure that qualifies me as ex Way and I can post about my Way experiences on this ex Way forum. Whether or not I'm recovered according to some poster's definition, who only will accept recovery as being within their own belief system, means very little to me. I know the quality of the life I once lived and the quality of the life I now live. I also know it is pointless to try and explain that to One Way believers. After all, I was a One Way believer myself for many years. That stance holds no surprises ( or attractions) for me.

But we are not all Christian. I'm not. A few other's aren't. I'm not part of your church, nor am I here to join a church. Pawtucket has not declared this to be a Christian forum. If he does, then I would leave out of respect for him and the type of forum he wants to run. I don't see this forum as a type of church or fellowship. I see it a place to speak out, after having been without a voice during my TWI years. Also, it is healing to see that things I thought were wrong and unloving were seen that way by others who experienced similar situations. Also, I have found that outside of the ex way folk, very few people have any understanding about groups like TWI. They just think you are nuts.