Bramble

Birds also live in specific areas/ habitats so are dependant on those lands. As long as the habitat is there they thrive. Some birds, like crows, can thrive in many places/habitats. That is why the Crow Indians and others have seen crows and ravens as powerful--they survive and thrive in even harsh conditions.

I don't really see the point of having a person swear in on a book from a religion they don't follow--what's the value in that? A person who is not Christian may not see the Bible as a symbol of truth.

'Rejecting Christ' and 'chucking' are IMO reflect the negative viewpoint of other's beliefs by those who hold to a Only One Right Way And It Is Mine And If You Don't Hold It You Are WRONG belief system. Rejecting and chucking may not be at all the process a person who left Christianity went through...but those with the One Right Way seem to have no capacity to listen. Painting other religions with the demon brush is one thing I do reject. Christian = good person, Non Christian = bad person does not hold true for me. You'd think the heavenlt reward would be given to the good, but even Christians can't decide on who gets in. Christian society = good, Non Christian society = bad also doesn't work for me. I think the world would be a better place if people of faith could practice their faiths in ways that are right for them with out the enmity/demonizing of others who hold different beliefs. I know as soon as I hear that type of attitude, it clouds the 'I have a wonderful relationship with my God' words the person may also be saying. I'm thinking--scary, not to be trusted, stay awaaaaay, don't Let that person into your life, danger danger Will Robinson. If love for Christ and God is so wonderful and full of love and light, then why are others viewed so negatively? To me it seems related to fear.

I just finished Crossing to Avalon by Jean Bolen. Women's/goddess spirituality/midlife/Grail legends. Loved it! Not her latest book, I found it at the library.

I thought you might be interested in seeing some guidlines used in Millionth Circle Women's spirituality groups(sacred feminine/goddess/peace/environmental...) Create a circle. Consider it a sacred space. One person speaks at a time. Speak and listen from the heart. Encourage and welcome diverse points of view. Listen with discernment instead of judgment. Share leadershipand resources. Decide together how decisions will be made. Work toward consensus when possible. Offer experience instead of advice. When in doubt or need, pause and silently ask for guidance. Decide together what is to be held in confidence. Speak from your own experience and beliefs rather than speaking for others. Open and close the circle by hearing each voice. (Check-ins and check-outs.)

Now I'm confused. Who is saying it is not nice out here? I thought we were saying it isn't nice in there.

See, I don't think the horse is dead. It's still there! I think it is trampling all over folk, but not over me because I got out from under. Maybe that fact is still a little closer to home to some. Maybe some remember how difficult it is to live under the hooves and are trying to yell a warning.

Watch out! I'm Triple Slaughter!

TWI wasn't twenty years ago for many of us. So glad you are all over it.

Healthy families and healthy friendships allow for differences in belief/lifestyle while still maintaining the relationship. Respect, boundaries, equal footing,empathy, affection, care, concern, remain, but the individual might make changes...with out fear of losing their loved ones. I don't know how one has a healthy fellowship. I sometimes particpate in 'open circles' to which many are invited, which I enjoy, and what I get out of it might be completely different from the person next to me.I've been invited to a couple more intimate things...but I really prefer getting together with a couple of friends for a specific purpose--and our beliefs differ. And they have no 'power' over my personal life, no one obeys any one in the little group, we are all adults.For that time our purpose is the same. We discuss the purpose prior. But the things I am involved with are all fluid. I suspect that is one of the appeals of mega churches--an outlet for worship, and an individual can walk away from a service with their own thoughts about it.

Leaders in ministries where followers are expected to obey and change their ways according to leadership directives--those leaders should be held up under a bright light. I know ex wafers that are still dazzled by the MOG doctrine--and JL is their MOG.How many followers practice the non thought aspects I saw and practiced while in TWI? Don't think anything negative, don't be critical of the MOG or the Ministry. Even questioning the doctrine is NOT OF GOD! NO, you need to buy the book and study more, so you too can understand. A sweet--' we're taking care of this problem with weeping hearts' letter just lulls them all back into non thought. All is well, trust us, we have the Word...you have nothing to be concerned about, buy my book.. GS shakes it up, and some of those critical and sharp posts just might penetrate the fog....and save someone from having to live by spider-in-nose dreams.

Well, seems to me 'personal prophecy' should be personal...between you and your God. If you are prophesying about someone else, then it is not personal...It's shared or group or...Oh! I know, Leadership Prophecy!!! To be given by the leader concerning the horrid faults of a follower, and obeyed by the little person--or else! We just need a new book.

Good for you! I, too, think TWI encouraged bullies.

I think teachers who understand young children's development are becoming a thing of the past. Developemental practices in early childhood preschools etc are becoming harder to find. There are preschools in my area that are desk/paper/pencil/worksheet classrooms for three and four year olds, and the local jr. college sends student teachers there. A couple years a go I had a little boy preschooler who thought it was hilarious to yank down other kids pants. One parent of a little girl nearly pulled her child from the preschool because she was concerned about sexual abuse, wanted the child expelled etc. Really, the little guy wasn't targeting her daughter--he targeted kids with elastic waist pants! We treated the incidents like any other preschool behavior issue(like knocking down someone else's block tower, or taking someones toy, or jumping off the swings, or coloring on the wall, or wiping your nose on your shirt, or...)

HFC = Household fellowship coordinator( twig leader = old wine skin) HF = Household Fellowship (twig was old wine skin)

I have no problem with an individual exploring their own dreams or prophecies/divinations etc for their own insight.Before I left TWI I had a vision or dream of my HFC with the teeth of a wolf, running with his wife and another woman in the fellowship, like a pack of wolves, and the other Twits in the fellowship cowered before them. It certainly helped me be on my guard at a time when I neede to be... But once 'leadership' becomes an authority to be obeyed --"Do what I tell you and your life will be fixed" things get ugly. Doesn't really matter what method--dreams, discerning of spirits, present truth...Sad fact is, people don't 'fix' that easily, especially not from just being told to be fixed, and sometimes what a leader wants fixed is all in the leader's imagination...

Whether dominionists are some type of rare fringe movement with in Evangelical Christianity, I don't know. But I suspect Evangelicals would tolerate dominionists far better than they tolerate non Christians. I have heard about the difficulties non Christians face in the military (http://mrff.blogspot.com/, http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15925.htm )and, like Vegan, I've heard all about the evils of demons etc in pagan religions, read about weird weird satanic rituals attributed to Wicca etc(which doesn't believe in satan, hmmm.), read 'deliverance' stories that sound like a walk through pychosis, portrayed as normal Wiccan stuff... My 'what if I wonder' scenario didn't seem to far out to me. But then, my experience with Christianity hasn't been all warmth and love. It seems to me The Our Christian Heritage is often a lead into--'and we should be a Christian nation today!' I'm thankful for a secular government and that dominant religions don't have a slick path to power over others.

I was using my imagination, guys--what if! Sheesh. Minority religions do look to the government. Separation of church and state is a precious ideal. Things look a little different if you are, say, a pagan army widow who wants a pentacle on her husband's grave. Or if you are a Jew looking at the city park Nativity scene, or if you are anyone not Christian looking at the Ten Commandments on the courthouse lawn... Having read some about the Christian dominionist movement--yeah, those people are scary.Unless you are on their approved list.

I wonder what the Christian Right would do if it really got what it wanted. What would they do with the unbelievers? Put us in camps? Take our kids away to a Christian school( like they did those unChristian Native Americans ?) Special neighborhoods? Close the doors to higher education, politics, the military to non Christians? Shudder. I say, bring on diversity. And I don't mind the Nativity sets in the city parks--what is there to dislike about Father Time, The Great Mother and the Return of the Sun God?

Once she gets involved in her local fellowship and it becomes known that her fiance is -gasp- Catholic, she will be under much pressure to convert you or dump you. Can't be unequally yoked, ya know. You can try to placate them by going to fellowship etc, but that will never be enough. You need to 'sell out' to the Truth(their terminology.) And being a newbie, you will need to be undersheparded (guided like a stoopid sheep) in details great and small. I wonder if you'll have to turn in weekly schedules and include your love life?

This has been going on for years...how sickening. Interesting--they have different methods than the 'spiritual suspiscion'(imagination run amok) of TWI of the nineties, but the end seems to be about the same--declare others possesed and try to run (or ruin) their lives. I think once you fall for the 'leaders should be obeyed' business, you can just expect trouble...

You already have your doctrines permission to drop him like a hot rock. It doesn't even really matter that it is NA devil spirits'You could drop him for Trinitatian devil spirits, if he was Trinitarian. Or RC Saint Devils spirits, if that was his religion of choice. Woo, those Mother of God Mary worshippers! Or maybe 'slain in the spirit" devil spirits, if he was Pentacostal. Pick the non Way belief of your choice. There's always a devil spirit behind it, right? Arn't most Chrisstians trinitarian anyway, so they are worshipping an idol? Isolate, Isolate, that's the only way!

Many people in minority faiths have pretty sharp radar for prosylitizing. Faiths that don't believe in witnessing and winning someone to their faith don't always look real positively on being witnessed to. Some believe having a Christian pray for them to leave their faith and become Christian is a form of bad( manipulative) magic and the prayer is with out their consent, a big no no in some circles. Honestly, I've seen far more unconditional love outside the Christian church. Knowing you are viewed as being devil possesed etc--in other words, evil, and require change before you are acceptable isn't all that warm and fuzzy to those outside the 'club.' I suspect it works best on the young or very needy... I'm very thankful for my family and the love they always shown. Non are perfect, and we've had issues( we are caring for a severely mentally ill sibling, that can be stressfull). I don't feel any pressure to conform to their various beliefs.

Isn't Tim Lahay's theology on End Times accepted as accurate by many conservative Christians? It sounds very similar to what a Pentacostal friend of mine believed. So you don't see anything wrong with a game where children are blowing away(albeit without gore) unbelievers? Christian soldiers?Against the unChristians? How does it being 'after the rapture' matter? Is human nature supposed to change or something tat thta time? so anyone not a Christian will be evil?? So what happens to free will? Seems like there is only one will or death. Is that not subtily teaching your kiddos that unbelievers really are evil? That someday they will have to die because they are really enemies? Us vs them mentality? Of course that is some people's doctrine. TWI, others,too. What about a Muslim game--war against the infidels? Would you let you kids read that fiction, and play that game without saying anything? It doesn't make you uncomfortable? We don't have any violent "strategy" games in our home that glorify war, nor are gore movies allowed. The Left Behind books have been discussed in my home also, though I won't stop my kids from reading them, they know why I don't like them and their exclusionist view, fear motivation etc. And, no, I won't be buying the game so I can see it for myself. I read one of the books. I spent no money on it(someone was trying to convert one of my kids and gave them some), and watched the movie for free on TV. Not a fan.

Haha, Johniam. I wonder what your NA belief bro would tyhink of your answer and attitude?