Bramble

Wicca is a recognized religion in the US and has been around for some decades now. Don't really know if there has been a 'resurgence.' What an individuals motives maybe for their involvement in Wicca/ witchcraft, pagan faiths can vary greatly. Most of those I know personally are middle aged, from a Christian faith originally, and thoughtful. At my former job I worked o a team of 24 people,4 of them were Wiccan /pagan... don't know if this is typical at all. religioustolerance.org is a goof site for accurate info on other faiths/beliefs etc

My friend came out of a fundie Christian group called the Chapel, somewhere in the NE. Her horror stories much like TWI stories here on GSC. I don't know much about druids and there are probably dozens of different types.

Thanks twinky, v kind to post. Don't know many druids types--my area pagans tend to be Wiccan-ish, Native American or Asatru (Germanic/Norse)or a mix of all three. I'm expecting to see the Wapiti Full Moon Freya Circle announced any day now. My best pagan friend is a bruja--Latino witch. She comes from a fundie group called the Chapel--and we have eeriiy similar wacko stories. Interesting that the repeal of the witchcraft laws in England(early fifties?) opened the doors to the modern pagan/Wiccan movement. Organizing a pagan group is often referred to as 'herding cats.' Everyone DOES have a doctrine and a mouth, so there is negotiation and compromise. Obedience isn't generally a requirement, which keeps some cult types at bay. Agreement is helpful for getting things done--a common vision. Many prefer the peace of their own backyard, and in my opinion that is how it should be. A couple or three events a year is plenty. At least that has been my experience. Went to a pagan wedding recently. The bride made all the clothes for the wedding party out of recycled/used clothing. Bridesmaid's dresses were made from t shirts and dyed purple. Very cute and memorable.

My info is old, but arounf 1997 or so hubby and I were counseled NOT to move back to Montana, it was 'spiritually dark.' As in no TWI believers. I'm sure there are Way-like believer there in offshoot minitries, but hubby and I are not involved w/them. leafytwiglit, I'll bet our husbands do know each other. The wows he was with were goof folk. Hope they are all doing well. fre8 La8o is still IN I think. my husband was the BIG GUY. So many of the people I knew back in the early days were such neat people, sincere, kind, brave... No wonder we all got involved in TWI--there were super people to enjoy life with. Too bad it didn't remain like that. Think what awesome histories of friendship we would have now,

Before I got married I moved around all the time--but I didn't own anything. Then I got married, bought and furnished a home, had kids--moving was far more difficult after that. We listened to leadership, sold our first house and moved to a limb city where the 'word was hot' and of course the house we rented cost more per month than the mortgage. I was not big on moving around after we had kids, so we found a nice little house near a decent grade school and rented--our landlord wanted to sell it to us, but we moved west after leaving TWI. We fell into a great deal and bought a house that had belonged to a family friend who just needed out of the payment fast. We thought a time or two about moving into something larger than our little house, but after several hits from medical bills and then my job layoff we are very happy we stayed in the little house with the small, almost paid off mortgage. We don't carry much credit card debt and generally pay it off monthly unless we have something big going on like a trip. We don't mind a reasonable car payment. In addition to helping people move all the time in TWI, my mechanic husband also fixed broken down old clunkers--including ours-- every weekend for years! The first thing we did after leaving TWI was get a decent car on a loan and we haven't regretted that once.

A techie guy I know sent me here teksale.com because I wanted an apple computer. I have a mac writing program called Scrivener which I love but haven't been able to use on the netbook or PC. I ordered the $79 refurbished all in one emac g4. Uploaded my writing program and Word--works like a charm! Looks like they bought a lot of old school computers(which is where I got my first mac). Doesn't come with wifi, you have to use a cord or buy a stick. Netgear sticks run around $35 if i decide to move to a location where the cord gets annoying. Anyway, I've had it a month now without a hiccup. I don't have a bunch of programs on it, just the Scrivener and Office 08, but it seems very functional for the price! Thought there might be someone who needs something cheap!:)

He is very high energy! We play fetch several times a day--he is very good at fetch!-- and take a walk. We have a rubber ball that bounces really high, it's his favorite game ball. He is a dog that needs attention and stimulation. He's rarely more than a yard away from me--follows me everywhere. If I run errands in the morning when it is not hot he rides in the car. My niece did a good job training him, he sits, stays, comes and heels, plus does sitting pretty, rollover and high fives! He's clicker trained but I haven't been out in the country yet where he could be off the leash to try it. Thought I'd go up to a mountain meadow this weekend. He is the first small dog I've had and I am shocked at how little he eats. All that bounce for very little food! His coat is silky and doesn't shed, so nice. My niece misses him but her current work situation keeps her away from home 10 hrs a day--Baxter did not thrive with that and would chew. We haven't had any chewing, but he hasn't been left alone for more than an hour. In a few weeks I will work part time but will be home by 11 am so it won't be too long.

My new dog Baxter with his squeaky ball. He's half Yorkshire Terrier, half Maltese and is a mix of silver and tan--and he doesn't shed!! He's 3 yrs old. My niece had to move and couldn't keep him. He knows lots of tricks!

Ask them if having a 'multitude of counselors' is the same as being expected to obey every leader up the line in matters of your personal life? Ask them if that is Christlike--the hierarchy of leaders you must obey? And if you don't obey the men above you in the ministry line, what are the ministry consequences?

There was some type of aridification event around 2200 BC that led to the collapse of civilizations(Egyptian) in the middle east and perhaps other areas. Desert, famine , deluge...some Bible events could be related to this time of upheaval.

If TWI had not crossed boundaries that lead to misery, if they had cared one tiny bit about my quality of life, I would have stayed forever. I doubt my parents ever conceived of a world where their darling daughter would not be protected by church/society/husband etc. Their world didn't contain people like TWI leaders, and as much as we in TWI slammed the Catholic church, my parents had far more freedom than we did under Way Law. Heck the priest would come over for dinner, not confrontation! My husband was and is hard working, generous and respectful of authority. For so long we believed there was no where else for us to go, only to find out there were a million better places to be.

My parents were frugal and we've been trying to live that way, also. To reduce the grocery bill I've been making dinners that I remember from childhood. More eggs, less beef, homemade soup. Now that I will be home more I am thinking about baking more bread, since good wholegrain bread is $4 a loaf!

I was raised to be obedient and compliant, a team player, respect authority, do my best etc. Lots of my peers(especially women) were raised the same way back in the fifties and sixties. No arguing, no fighting, work hard to please, respect authority, and take care of others. I think there is a reason so many of us got involved in TWI in late adolescence. We were maturing, breaking free from family, becoming independent and TWI was cloaked as a place to do that, and do important life/world changing work. But once we were in all those childhood habits were once again expected of us. I've tried to raise my children to have more balance--follow the rules, yes, but they can voice and think about those rules. Not unthinking obedience.

We went camping last week, nothing like the ROA, but I thought of it! My sis owns a remote lot with a tiny cabin in NW Montana near the Canadian border, on a creek. We cooked on the grill, had a fire at night, drank beer, splashed in the creek, read books, played card games and used a real outhouse. Kids fished, we brought the dogs who didn't need to be leashed and I crocheted and tossed the squeaky ball for my little dog. Nobody had to dress up or fix their hair. I slept on a good air mattress and there was no rain to deal with. No cell phone reception or electricity. Much nicer than the ROA, which was like a convention held in tents instead of a hotel.

I've met quite a few people who are involved in occult stuff. None are involvd in a hierarchy of leaders leading up to th MOG that they look up to and obey without qustion. I think it was the desire to control people from the top down that really hurt way people.

I wish I had recorded some of their stories yeras ago, when they were all still alive. My cousins and I are planning a cousin reunion, hope to record some there. Sheesh George, I am planning a monstr grocery list myself, since I will be out of work soon. I feel anxious if the cupboards aren't full of staples. Must have picked that up from Mom and Dad.

Oh, the hobos--they would come to Grandma's house, too. Their place was by a Shoshoni summer camp, and my grandmother would make sure the cow was milked before daylight or else someone would sneak over and milk her. Mom and her siblings played with the Shoshoni kids and their moms would give them dog jerky for a snack. I can't imagine having that many children--that many pregnancies. 15. Grandma had 12, one died at age 2. She had her first at age 17 and her last at age 42. All born at home. My house seems crowded with three kids, but Grandma's home was no larger than my little house and held many more bodies. Funny, both my mom's parents lived into their nineties, never had a surgery, very little medical/dental. Lived longer than most of their kids(three still alive), who had all the modern medicine. But both grew up on dairy farms and probably ate all home grown foods most of their lives. No plastic until they were up in years, and they were physically active.

My mom came from a large family(11 kids) in Wyoming, and she was one of the youngest. Her older siblings helped financially all the while she grew up because their father was injured in a mining accident and could no longer work. He kept house while Grandma worked at the Sheridan highschool cafeteria, and later for the VA kitchen. Mom went to Catholic school on charity, because there were so many of them.My uncles(5 of them) worked on government jobs and were in WW2. They were a fun bunch, boisterous, loud, liked to play games with the kids. One of my aunts was a maid for one of Sheridan's millionaires and very, very proper--she came home and made them learn rich people manners. especially tablee manners. They would poke each other with forks if their elbows were on the table. We kids thought that was hilarious. My dad was put in an orphanage(the Indian school on Shiprock Rez) when he as 4. His older brother died there, he'd been ill for a long time and his illness as one of the reasons Grandma gave them up. Grandpa went to a logging camp for work and she thought he'd left them, she ran off with a different guy, keeping her baby with her. She had 4 kids by age 20. In later years we learned she was bipolar. My Dad's younger sister was adopted.My dad spent his child hood as a foster kid, which back then meant 'unpaid farm hand.' One summer he worked for a bachelor farmer than kept a pot of oatmeal cooking all day and that was all they ate. Dad couldn't abide oatmeal. He did mange to finish highschool but he worked nights at a meat packng plant in Denver. He loved, LOVED the Navy when he enlisted for WW2. They sent him to clerical school and he worked in rthe Captain's office. He said taking typing in highschool was the smartest thing he ever did.

Enjoy your freedom, recent leave takers! Relish it! You can make a non schedule, read anything you like! I remember going to a school open house on a former fellowship night soon after we left TWI. In the past years we'd had ugly reproof about school activities interfearing with the Word. My husband mentiond how he didn't feel guilty at all. We were so lighthearted! When we left I'd been in 20 years and hubby for 27 years. I doubt we'll ever be 'normal' like people who never where involved...but we have insights in certain situation 'normal' people may never have.