Bramble

Is God the Father of Adam and Eve? He created them, that seems to be a parental act in my view. What about their descendants... He has no relationship to them, responsibilities? Because Adam and Eve fell? Many human parents seem to be able to love and care for the children of their erring children...but God can't unless certain conditions of belief are met. That is not unconditional love. Doesn't seem like a responsible famililial attitude to me. I think the born again doctrine is an ultra exclusionary doctrine--the 'born agains' love better, think better, know better, act better etc, than any non born agains, in their born again viewpoint. They are the superior humans--the world should follow them, and convert to their beliefs. I personally do not believe there has been any change in the nature of human beings since the coming of Christ. The world continues on with the good and the bad, and the Christian Church is just as much part of the good and the bad as any other group. If the born again doctrine is true, why can't their superiority be observed? Agape can't be pin pointed. An act could be done through Agape, or maybe not...two acts of say, heroism, one might be agape because the hero was Christian but the other not because the hero was Jewish...

I did some sleep walking in my teens and early twenties, especially if i was sleeping in a strange place. I once entered a closet and slept on some luggage. I woke up because I was uncomfortable, the snuck back to the couch where I was supposed to be sleeopng.

Self love and Christianity...isn't much basic Christian doctrine built on the fallen man, born in sin, fallen world, we are sinners, have mercy on me...pretty hard to move toward a self love is important viewpoint if you truly believe those things. Through in the devil spirit/possesion doctrines and people start looking pretty ugly and in need of major change and work. In TWI we were all about changing ourselves because we were just not perfect enough...seems like some off shoots see it the same way with their Momentous classes etc. edited for spilling :P

Jeaniam--you could cut and paste them. Open two windows( two greasespots) One with your message box, and one with your email box. Highlight ( so it turns black, sweep over text with left button down )the text, right click it and click copy, then go to your message, right click and clcik paste. If that makes any sense!

The whole born again super special love doctrine--even though it can't be identified or defined or actually seen as so different from those unbelievers-- but they are just showing human love not super special love that we show. We just know it is true and therefore know it makes us better than other humans who aren't like us... Why would people think that's arrogant? It is just the obvious truth. Hmmm.

I always worked in centers and preschools, where there are alot of kids and staff. Most have open door policies, many have doorless rooms and bathrooms, just so staff know they could be observed at any time. I was home with my kids, but they did go to rather large preschools. A home day care with one or maybe two providers-- I would have to know the woman like a sister.

The snake in mythology is a really interesting study. They symbolize things quite different than the tempter in Genesis. Renewal, immortality, healing, eternity...

In any family or group/community, the very young, the very old and the very ill require more care from others than they can return to that family or community. With children there is the hope they will mature and be a contributing member of the family or community. Maybe the sick will get better...but the old, they are going to die. In my view, taking care of those members of a family require values like duty, responsibility, and love is the fuel that makes it happen, that motivates someone to care for their young, or sick or aged, those who may never turn around and do the same for you. I would say that is a higher form of love. In TWI's renewed mind love, it was twisted. Those that needed the most could be abandoned and that would be 'love,' some beyond the rational 'spiritual' love that meant you didn't have to get your hands dirty. (Not young children, though there was certainly an amount of impatience over their needs)-- but elderly and sick were on their own in many instances. Once you could no longer hold together some illusion of super blessed perfection... My husband doesn't talk much about TWI, even though he was in many years longer than I was. He said once,"Well, they sure gave a new definition of love." Which pretty much summed up our experience. Shifra, nice to see your smiling face.

I work in an office where perfumes are banned, for which I am grateful. I have fairly severe asthma,and floral perfume, smoke of any kind and cleaning chemicals can be an issue. They do use some deodorizing cleaners at work in the bathrooms, but I try to avoid the recently cleaned ones. I watched my dad die of copd. I don't even like to watch anyone smoke.

HFC-- Household Fellowship Coordinator, replaces old wineskin 'twig leader.' HF--replaces 'twig'--old wineskin

Bad/wrong/disruptive behavior can get one kicked out of any group. I don't think violating privacy issues or what people might see as safety measures is quite the same as heresy. Looks like a behavior issue, not a doctrinal one. I thought the Inquisition was about doctrine, not behavior.

Covens are not a church service or class setting, with sermons or teachings. No Sunday school for the kiddies. They plan rituals for certain purposes, they do rituals. While I can see a zealous convert showing up to witness, can you really see a Southern Baptist convert sticking around long to plan and participate in rituals involving the horned God or Triple goddess, to try to subvert the rituals into Southern Baptists practice? "Well, I think instead of singing The Circle is cast, we should sing Oh How I love Jesus." "Hmm, that is not the pantheon we are practicing with. Know any songs to Isis?" There's no confession of beliefs as in, "Do you confess in the Goddess Thus and Such and renounce all other goddesses?" no, "Have you quit believing in Isis? You've been tricked into following Bridgid?" Many polytheissts try to be respectful of others' gods. Covens might take oaths-- like vows of silence involving the practices, mysteries, names of other members, vows to not acknowledge someone outside of the circle by their witch names in public, vows to be silent are a big deal. Getting a rep as an oath breaker is a big deal. In fact, getting a bad rep tends to follow people around in the computer network age. Standards would have to do with the practices of the coven, not the inner beliefs of the individuals. You could be divorced or not believe in divorce, be monagamas or not, be for or against abortion rights...but still choose to participate in the circle or coven with those who might believe or live differently than you do. It is not inconceivable for a witch to also attend a church, say with their spouse. It would not be seen as heresy.

My mom grew up next to a Shoshoni Indian summer (sheep)camp. She remembers playing with the Shoshoni kids and eating dog jerky for a snack. She said it was good.

Actually, Wicca is a religion more about practice than about doctrine since it is not a revealed religion like Christianity—which is hard for Christians to grasp, I think. Wiccan groups don’t (in general) expect everyone to believe or practice the same jot and title. There is no central authority. Groups are more an agreement to practice certain rituals in certain ways at certain times using certain symbols etc—not because other ways are ‘wrong’ but because the shared symbolism/experience is more powerful in the group setting. What someone actually believes is their business.

Well, I still want to hear the poodle story. And I think they way they treat cats on the Way farms is disgraceful. Live trapping feral cats and getting them fixed is not unknown, even among -gasp!- cowboy ranchers. As far as the cat beater goes, I suspect there are laws about cruelty to animals...wouldn't it be a riot if one of the HQ muck a mucks got charged with cruelty to animals.

TWI Leaders = heads of every household.

Our area quit having Children's fellowship, too. The adults needed to be in the meeting to hear the golden words. As for young kids in long meetings--well, you had your spoon.

I got reproved for not hitting my kids hard enough with the spoon. I hated all that. When we finally left, the spoons went into the kitchen drawer where they belong. It was actually easier when our kids started school, because we had an acceptable reason for not dragging them to fellowship. They have few memories of TWI, adn their memories of actual fellowship were not warm and fuzzy. Seeing how warm and loving my earthly family was toward our kids in constrast to the cold, formal treatment of out coords and others in the fellowship really opened our eyes to something being very wrong. Or kids were never good enough--but then, neither were we! My oldest was the most affected. Doing much better now--it is good to strive but if you aren't quite perfect it doesn't mean you are worthless.

It is self published. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it didn't come from a Christian publisher.

EEk. My eyes are so dark you can't distinguish the pupil unless you shine a light in them. So were my father's, so are one of my kids. And here I always thought it was the non white blood( Indian/ Mexican) ancestry showing! I learn something new everyday.

If you google his name, the first two hits are GSC. Haha. People do google wrtiers. In fact, in these modern times, most writers are expected to have websites, newsetters, myspace. Publishers want their writers to do promotion. Of course that is in commercial fiction markets.

After '89 or so that book was no longer available. The TWI book stores were purged in the late eighties of works by those that left TWI.

Hmmm, if someone does confront him, he can now pull a John Lynn. 'Buy my book.'

What was it about books and TWI? You could go to movies, watch videos etc, but sheesh, don't read a book for entertainment! Unless it was a mystery that LCM read of course.

Javajane, prior to TWI I did alot of writing. During those years IN there was little time for anything creative. After leaving I started writing again, took a class on novel writing--but I couldn't get anything finished! For a couple of years I was very frustrated with myself. Finally, though, someone gave me a clue--I was trying to write a perfect( because perfect is the only acceptable standard!) novel from the get go. Once I learned to write a rough draft without trying to get it perfect, then rewrite and edit, I was able to get something done.