Bramble

Huh. I never thought of this site as having the goal of getting people out of TWI. How would that even work? The TWI I left, in the late nineties, was vocal about the devil spirit influence on the net, just going there was a risk. It was very isolationist, all about the protection in the Household etc, and spiritual suspicion of all those on the outside. Unthinking obedience was the goal--just do it. Any form of non like minded disagreement would be horribly shocking. Even in a marriage, there was a head, the wife was 'subject" therefore no disagreements allowed because it's the Word at stake etc. Children obeyed, no disagreements allowed, fellowship folk obeyed leadership, no disagreements allowed. I know Innies have come upon this site, and it helped them get out. But I would say they were rare cases who still were able to take the huge risk of jumping into devil spiritville. Somehow, before even getting here, they were shocked out of the need to obey and conform. IMO those still in, the older ones, not their kids, have shut down much of their independant thought and actions to conform to the demands of their doctrine.

A post( not from Eyes) was deleted.

Eek. I just bought old lady shoes, black with ties, soft leather, sturdy arch support, flexible soles. They are really really comfortable, and really really ugly.

I thought the topic was religion--Elitism and separation of humanity through religion. Christianity being one...doctrinal doesn't equal Biblical.

Not every Christian interprets those same verses in Phillipians the same as you do. I think there are some Christian Univeralists who post here and it seems this has come up in the past in discussion. Christians do have choices in how they view and interpret scriopture, there is no one, universal Christian doctrine for all to accept.

To my non Christian mind that sounds alot like fear motivation--my way or the highway yet again.

Hmmm.An opinion...There is the thought that humans are evolving spiritually--the hundreth monkey, the millionth circle beliefs are tied into that. While some see these as the dark end times, others see this period in time as one of change for the better...the age of Aquarius, the water bearer pouring out joyful spiritual knowledge. I find that thought hopeful and more comforting than my past beliefs. Since pagan/wiccan/neopagans that tend to think the above type thing are not revealed religions--no holy book--it is more a groundswell attitude than doctrine, at least in my observations. Such thoughts are very different than Bible Christianity, with different views on the state of mankind--not born in sin, not requiring a sacrificial savior-- but children of the goddess/god/cosmos/divine what have you. I think many people, not just those who have chosen a spiritual or religious path, but also those who live outside faiths and traditions, see the limitations and dangers of a 'my doctrine is the only way for all mankind' thought like held in TWI. That leads to strife, enmity, isolation from the evil world, not wholeness or community--unless of course we all conform to one sect that 'wins.' I do think there is in the end, one truth, I just don't think humans are capable of more than a glimpse of it here and there, and those glimpses look different as flavoured by the culture, the times, the individual...we all do see through a glass darkly, because we are here, physical in the physical. A Wiccan belief, As above, so below...the physical reflects the spiritual in ways we can understand and practice, and leaves room for individuals to make their own observations and connections.

I was a wow vet living in a Way home at that time, I didn't even know he was ill. I knew he had been ill, but he was at the Rock the previous year and any illness was treated like it was all over in my neck of the woods. So the first I heard of it all was that he had died.

Those dots separate the post from the poster's custom signature, that's all.

Ex, you are so right about 'create'! Wow, that owrd is right up there with "wish'. Details, people, details! All it takes is one wrong word to get on the slippery slope! This is the correct phrase: Imagineer your Fate in 2008.

Heehee, I had wife in here, Rascal. I wouldn't leave Mr Bramble out! But yeah, I see the initial post as another 'shut up about TWI, it is BAD to say BAAAD things about TWI' post. I don't have to shut up. I think it is BAD to try to shush others up. Plus it seems a little...frantic? Desparate?

Hmmm. Well, I don't believe in Judgement Day, so can't apply that. Why would I need to change my life because it is my last year on Earth? I'm living my life in light of what I believe, I see no pressing need to make a 'life overhaul' because it is all going to end in a year... I have no sense of urgency to change myself because you or someone else thinks I should. I'll just continue on, being a mom, wife, employee, sister, friend, Grease Spotter, as best I can, which may include 'whining' about ugly times in TWI.

Sometimes I have more on my plate than at other times. I do have internet friends who are not ex TWI, and most are on myspace or paganspace or various yahoo groups. A couple of friends and I even have our own little group, just so the three of us can keep in touch. One of my best internet friends lives in Australia, she's getting married and it is so weird not to be able to get to the wedding! I would love to meet all of them in person sometime. Between work and family I find it hard to socialize outside of the house very often, though I love to meet friends for coffee. But on the net-- I can be doing laundry, drying my hair, chatting, all at the same time. I think getting emails etc of the posters you've become friends with is a great idea, so you can keep in touch even if they don't hang out here much any, more.

Different choices in life bring responsibilities to others...marriage, raising children, accepting a job. These responsibilities take up the great bulk of my life and energy--if they were not in my life, my life would be quite different in terms of everyday actions and responsibilities. There are other things I accept as responsibilities that involve others, family members, community. Everyone is responsible for themselves works well enough when someone is well and successful, it is a different picture when the storms of life leave some unable to meet their own needs due to illness etc. I see family and community stepping in in those situations.

The posters who contribute nothing to the actual topic of this thread but are more interested in starting confrontations with other posters --who ARE trying to address the topic at hand--are a waste of my reading time, so they have gone on ignore. IMO there is some reason they wish to derail topics, and it is not out of looove.

I'm not posting about any particular post on this thread, just some thoughts... TWI doctrine was ultra ultra exclusionary. It was the greatest truth known since the first century church, pure revelation for God above, the answer to every problem for every human in every situation. All other doctrines fell short, far short, run by devil spirits at the top. The only safe spiritual place was in TWI doctrine. We controlled our minds to be unwavering, out of obedience that was really just fear of what could happen to us or our loved ones if we stepped our beyond the Hedge of Protection. With such extreme views, all on the outside were suspect, enemies, ignorant, spiritually unclean, required to change to be in our lives. We could say and think as harshly toward those as we wished--and our leaders taught us by example. Those who walked away from TWI doctrine--spiritually dark and not to be trusted. Cut them out of your life, for your own safety... I don't think it is hard to understand that those who still hold to the belief that TWI doctrine was the greatest revelation ever, given by a great man of God, would be offended at those of us who think differently--especially since we were once part of the truth and walked away( blinded by the adversary in their view). When confronting such spiritual darkness, it is acceptable and necessary for them to treat 'unbelievers' harshly. the greatest truth ever known is at stake and all, and the unbelievers need to be shocked into changing...

Pond-- I was thinking about choices in light of responsibility and love, also. To me they are all bundled together. Sky4it--how ya doin'?? :D

I like that you see humans as basically good, but then I am not one who believes in all humanity as being fallen. By your constitution it seems you see things of the spirit in an inclusive manner, not exclusive, with your base standard being love. If I were to write a personal constitution, I would probably have a paragraph about responsibility.

Happy Winter Solstice and Joyous Yule. This year I made a gingerbread cake Yule log. Fun! Not so fire dangery as the wooden log with candles.

My family has goodie traditions--making my mom's fudge, making Christmas Cut out cookies, some with egg dye paint and white sugar, some with sprinkles and some with frosting and sprinkles. We also like to make snickerdoodles and molasses krinkles, and all are fun to share with co-workers etc. My mom made stained glass cinnamon candy, but I've never been that brave! My parents are gone now, but my sis and I still do the treats. Decorating is part of the fun, though I don't do what my parents did(tinsel, one strand at a time!) For me it is a time to celebrate your loved ones being together, and remembering those who have passed on. My family always had Christmas dinner on a pink brocade tablecloth, with all the crystal and wine goblets. Neither my sister nor I are as formal as our parents were, but we do love that pink tablecloth.

I suspect that WD doesn't hear/understand because then WD would have to make painful changes... And Bumpy has to chastise because pain and fear and anger and sadness at past events makes him uncomfortable, so --divert! divert!

I heard this taught at a Bridal shower/ Women's Night by Mrs. Limb Coordinator. I'd been married about ten years at that time, and it had never occurred to me to use sex as a bargaining tool. At the time I rationalized the teaching--some women probably weren't married to such nice guys as my husband was...they had to resort to manipulative measures...

I think anyone who seriously believes that the Way doctrine was the greatest truth known since the First Century Church might want to evaluate their thoughts on what obedience to the head of the household really means. Is this what it means, that the man has the 'right' to hit his wife if she is verbally irritating? John and apparantly Jean, believe that hitting someone solves this problem of irritating speach. I say it just shuts up the speaker due to fear and pain--solves nothing, and teaches the lesson that physical violence is how you 'win.' Somehow, The J's seem to think that this action will bring peace to a troubled marriage and spouse. Is this a healthy practice in marriage--or any relationship? Is it really so easy, a smack now and then keeps things and people on even keel, all is good and pleasant?

She's done it before.