Bramble

In TWI our meekness to God was shown by our submission and obedience to his leaders--if we couldn't listen to and obey them, we certainly couldn't follow God... Isn't surrender a military term? What does that have to do with a loving parent-child relationship? Doesn't the Christian God want His children to grow up into wise individuals, capable of doing the right thing, making decisions and plans for their lives? Surrender seems to imply that they can not make those decisions etc...God does it for them.

Some people will tell you with great certainty that doom, gloom, disaster, devil spirits,bad stuff etc will invade your life if you doubt--> question--> quit believing--> change beliefs etc. You'll have to decide if you agree with them. That will greatly determine your direction.

No need to apologize Sir Guess. I found your reply about glimpses understood according to our stage very interesting.

If you have something to market to the exway community, GSC is the place to put it, even if you don't like what GSC is about. Any publicity is good publicity.

I think that the initial thoughts that deviated from TWI doctrine were scary because I spent most of my adult life in TWI with all the beliefs about devil spirit/disaster that befell those who left the truth.

God, gods, goddess, diety, divinity, spirituality...how much can we humans really understand? It gets to the point, I think, that the more someone attests to the absolute truth of their beliefs, the more they sound like they just don't get it. I believe we get glimpses--but not all the time, not on demand, and the experience can't be replicated for another, because it is personal, like a thumbprint...though we can try to communicate such things to others. As above, so below, a saying goes...this physical world reflects the spiritual world. What's happening around you, in your life? Is there a deeper meaning? A truth just for you? A pattern? Chaos?( that is part of life, too.) Looking within is not without value, as many of us were taught. Sometimes it is the only way to figure some things out to your own satisfaction. Prayer, meditation, contemplation. And then sometimes you get the greatest answers while folding clothes or taking a walk or some other task that takes no active thought, leaving your thoughts free. I remember feeling upset with myself at times for unrenewed thinking...but not thinking won't make it go away. And change is scary.

Wow, that IS creepy. Right on the front page too--please the leaderdang of Gawd or yer out! Same ol' same ol'. Good for educational purposes with my kids though. What to watch out for. Ps. I love the new word leaderdang. Remoinds me of clang--big noise!

To be honest, I didn't do the poll. It seemed to relate more to Way like beliefs--hope, forgiveness, reconcilliation-- which I no longer hold. Relatedness...not sure how you define that . Empathy? Shared experience? We are all children of the goddess, composed of star particles?? We traveled through a past life together? I wasn't sure what the section on reconcilliation meant. Reconcile with who? The only area in my life where I have a deep separation are with those that I don't trust to have in my life as per their previous treatment of me and my family, those I deem as dangerous to my or my family in some way. I don't spend alot of time thinking about forgiveness. Those I love and have relationships with, forgiveness just happens as you work things out. Those I have severed connections with--I don't care about forgiving them, nor do I have a doctrinal directive to try to, and they are out of my life for good reasons. I do not feel condemnation or spiritually lack because I haven't forgiven them. I don't have a 'well, we all break fellowship,' attitude. I don't believe in sinful man, sin nature, original sin etc so forgiveness for me from a deity is not part of my beliefs. As I posted in the other thread, I don't think the negative emotions are bad. I think they are our natural warning system and should be examined. Sometimes the pleas for forgiveness bother me, because I can see how controlling people can manipulate that doctrine to their advantage so they can remain in power over people. And some posters seem to equate forgiveness with 'Shut Up!' But them I spent most of my adult life in a cult.

I remember that the Big Money Movie came on at 2 in the afternoon in the summertime. My big chore was to do the ironing for our family of six--and we ironed almost everything, even pillow cases. We had the whole ironing stash--the little covered board for cuffs on long sleeves, some kind of stuffed thing called a ham( can't remember what that is for now), this little rubber sprinkler thingy, spray on starch. And seams were to be ironed open, shirt sleeves creased a certain way....No wonder I joined a cult! I would do my ironing while watching the movie, and looked forward to it--especially Elvis movies.

My understanding, from my husband who got into TWI in the early 70s in Kansas, was that TWI Rev Steve Sann was related to one of the members of the band. Don't know if it is true.

I don't view unforgiveness as a spiritual lack of some sort, not when it involves a serious issue of damage or trust. While 'negative' emotions like fear, anger(from a non leader) where very much to be avoided in TWI, I believe they are internal warning symptons. Like physical pain, they are meant to be unpleasant, so you pay attention to the cause. As far as hope...some see the spiritual as living in the moment...

Elite in a positive aspect, as in a personal calling, or a chosen responsibilty often involves serving others through their church or ministry. I think that type of 'elite' mindset does a great deal of good in the world--the roll up the sleeves and work on solving this problem --type elite. There's a thread on About the Wqay( Way Bubblea) where posters are talking about the charitable programs their churches are involved in, very heartwarming. I see those types of churches adn Christians as trying to better others, building community, giving hope. Quite different than the TWI type of isolation and disdain for those with problems.

Me, too. Ex. Sheesh I'm doing a second week of overtime. But I would like to retire with my current income. Hmmm.

Looking back from the outside we can see that it wasn't right, but while in it seemed that it was necessary to protect the household, the Word, The Truth etc from all the devil spirit influences outside out group.

We did wow, way homes, ran a fellowship, I did the state bookstore for a few years, and children's fellowship for nearly a decade. Funny, though--when my own children were old enough to go to Children's fellowship they abandoned the program in favor of having the children in the main meetings and smacking them with wooden spoons. We left voluntarily but it was probably just a matter of days before we were kicked out. I'd made the 'mistake' several years earlier of telling my spouse I wanted out, he'd gone for help to the HFC, and it was all down hill from there with leadership.

I would believe the "I have a high standard for what is truth" arguement if WD didn't seem to focus on one particular poster so much. That makes it seems far less noble.

So how does free will fit into this cattcar9? One of the main draws for me when I first got involved with TWI was the loving, helpful, nurturing God portrayed to me. That God was so unlike the often angry and punishing God I'd learned of in my childhood, a scary god who taught you lesson with bad events. The nurturing God spoke to me because I had an earthy father who was kind and loving and gentle. It seemed to me to be more true as to what a Father would be than the punishing/teach you a lesson God. I think many young folks who got involved in TWI were thankful to leave the teach you a lesson God behind.

Gosh at my Household fellowship you needed to be no earlier than 10 minutes--or you sat in your car. Also, you needed to show up in the winter wearing a hat. Had too. Oh--and baby gates indicate you are a lazy mom and were not allowed.

I can't imagine that would work on a board of this size, which could get hundreds of posts in a day. It works well on small volume groups, with say a dozen posts a day. This site is equipped with a report button, which Paw has requested posters use. I used it recently, stated why I thought the post was a personal attack, and the post was removed in just a few hours. Most of us know when a personal attack has been made. Why not just hit the report button yourself? Uphold the no attack standard.

Hmm, I haven't been paying attention. Does WD demand 'proof' from those posters who post positives about VPW, also? Like, A poster claims that VPW is the greatest apostle since the apostle Paul--does he demand to see proof in such statements? Or does he(or she, I don't know which) only demand proof from those posters WD disagrees with? Because if he/she only demands proof of those who disagree with his opinions about VPW/TWI...

What sends shivers down an exwafer's spine is when they read about an incident so similar to what happened to them, in another area involving other people. Those moments are real and many have experienced then. Finally, someone understands what you went through! While the 'prove it' types might scoff and dismiss such posts, the people who it matters to know the truth of it.

People build up elite attitudes over all types of things--money, family name, educational level, the neighborhood they live in etc. As a child I belonged to an elite group, my local Catholic school...and way back when it was taught that non Catholics would go to hell. How could they not? They never went to Mass or confession etc. They probably didn't even know the Act of Contrition prayer. My dad had converted to Catholicism to marry mom. But I didn't feel really superior back then, more sad that people like my Congregational neighbors were hell bound. But we got along fine with them, played together, shared rides to the swimming pool etc. In TWI the elitism was of an entirely different nature--we distrusted and even ridiculed those not in our group. Nothing could really be said that was too harsh. LCM would have been happy to stone homosexuals and disobedient children. No compassion. It was a different level of elite, one that looked on outsiders as enemies. Maybe it is a matter of degree... TWI was aggressive and angry in many ways.

It is not hard at all to start a google group, yahoo group, forum etc. Very easy. Anyone with a computer access can do it. There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from making a Happy TWI forum that would be found easily on TWI searches. Just put TWI in the title--TWI, Remembering the Good Times, for instance-- and google etc will pick it up. Of course, you will have to moderate it. Since no one actually goes to the point of doing that, I figure what they really want is to try to change GSC and the posters, to conform to their happy views. To shut some posters and views down, if they can. And since Paw moderates against shutting those negative posters down, they get frustrated. They after all, are the 'victims', trying to hold forth the greatness of theVPW/TWI Word and all that, in a negative environment.