Bramble

I am not a mental health professional, but I do have a seriously mentally ill sibling. I didn't talk much about my brother when I was in TWI, and when medicated his behavior isn't unusual to the casual observer, he was at my TWI wedding and everything. Even my hubby wasn't really aware. But after my parents died he quit his medication. Then, everyone becomes aware with very little effort.(He is paranoid schizophrenic.) Once in TWI I went through a big time of prayer to heal him, cast out the spirit etc but I never got a 'green light.' Medicine has done more for his quality of life than anything else--except parents and siblings who care about him and kept him off the streets, which is where he would have ended up with TWI counsel I'm pretty sure.

Some may have, some may have veered into completely different directions than TWI...there is no consensus of belief on GSC. But the ones who have veered far away are not very likely to join up with any group that tries to turn back the hands of time and send them back into Way like beliefs. Not trying to be insulting at all. I just don't think TWI is a good choice for people--it has a bad track record.

I guess I'm not seeing what this thread is really all about. But I am much more comfortable with the rules and regs of our civil leaders than I am with rules and regs of religious leaders. TWI's pyramid leadership structure and no process for grievances(unless you had a high muckamuck good buddy) had no checks and balances of power. I don't get why spin off groups don't see the dangers of tryanny.

Facebook is popular. I have one for my romance writer penname, but that is for networking so a Way type group would be out of place. Plus, surfers might think I ENDORSE TWi, which would be awful.

In the nineties we made several(many)bad decisions due to counsel with leadership. We quit running a fellowship(debt), sold our house, moved to a big city...it took years to pick up financially after that. Since we struggled financially we were under a balloon of suspicion for years. As time went by my husband's health and a complication I had after a childbirth also made us weaker in the eyes of leadership. Eventually our HFC seemed to be trying to drive a wedge between us. I could do nothing right, hubby was the 'best'. Our life became consumed with performing to please, with counseling and reporting back etc. It was very stressful. We actually left right as our HFC was planning another intrusive ocd counseling issue, and we had had the unpleasant experience before--he was the type to demand some action, then on the next meeting, ask why you hadn't done something else, while you'd been concentrating on the thing previously talked about--there was no pleasing him. By this time hubby had seen with his own eyes some disturbing incidents of how the HFC treated me(HFC got too confident I think and let some ugly show) also he'd had a couple run ins with the limb co-ord. I wanted to leave a few years before hubby did, I stayed because I believed to leave would end our marriage. Hubby made a phone call, but we weren't smart enoughto say no calls or visits, so we went through a grilling by the limb coordinator. We did not believe at the time of leaving that we were doing the right thing. It was more an act of survival--we could not stand to go through it again(the reproof situation) and give up more of our lives to the HFC. A few months later we learned we were mark and avoid.

In TWi we viewed those outside TWi as mistaken at best, and usually in a far more negative light--possessed etc. Those who still believe a great deal of TWI doctrine probably due view most of the GSC posters as negative or worse--the enemy, and to take a stand against the negatives is working for God in their viewpoint. Okay, fine. I don't think anyone should be booted for holding those ideas. However, those types of viewpoints are likely to cause them to treat others harshly, and to be arrogant in doing so--didn't we practice or at least see that in TWI? Aren't some posters a good example of TWi doctrine alive and well? I think most people who stick around can figure that out and do. Seeing the behavior that develops from some doctrinal beliefs is a valuable lesson, I think, and can be seen not only in the stories people tell, but in how they interact with others. So if someone's conduct on the message board causes problems, then measures should be taken. I do think the mods have done a good job in the past year or so at getting some of the worst bully posters off the board, but not so over reaching that opinions and discussion are hindered. A special forum or designation for personal experiences seems reasonable. Plus if we as a community of posters would hit the report button if we saw trouble brewing for a new poster--and we can all recognise the new ones-- or someone stalking a regular poster, the mods could keep an eye and delete posts or give warnings etc as needed.

Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog

This reminds me of the one thing I really miss about the hillbilly midwest area of the country--the gardening! We're a mile high now in the Rockies with thin topsoil and a short growing season. Sure miss the bushels of produce!

A reason behind ritual is that it helps us shed the mundane aspects of daily life and immerse ourselves in the sacred for a brief time before everyday needs take up all our time and attention...small rituals though out the day help us live more consciously, remind us of what is important.

Large bookstore often distribute books by small publishing houses only through direct order, since the small publisher is not doing large print runs and doesn't work with a book distributing company.

Or, the moderators and Paw could just ban anyone who makes work for them, which is how it works on alot of other boards. If you are a problem, then you're gone, they don't have the time to babysit you.

??? I guess I don't get your point. It sounds like somehow we were supposed to know back then that Vic was wrong... Back in my Way daze it seems to me we all believed that Vic was the greatest apostle since Paul, so , no, in those days I did not consider that he stole 4 crucified etc from anyone else. Where did it come from?Why,Vic was the man of God of the entire world teaching us Truth. Now that we look back we know differently, but at that time...nope. As far as I knew, all of PFAL was what God told Vic to teach, the result of Vic's hard work and special connection to God. No doubt about it, I am one of the clueless ones that God or Jesus didn't give the scoop too, though apparently many others 'got' it, what ever it is. But I am done with trying to get it. In my pov, it was just never the path for me, since in all my past sincerity whatever it was never really was part of me...and now I see no reason to, which, while horribly offensive(and punishable by eternal damnation) to the ones who 'get' it, is at least honest and not faking to please others. The whole 'You didn't know/understand/study/learn/believe/do/try/obey/research like I did' aspect of finding the true Christian doctrine makes me weary and somewhat depressed. It all seems very 'secret squirrel club' and as much a mystery as the maligned mystery religions. I think I need to refresh myself in something else.

It is not BELIEFS that are the issue here. It is conduct. The forum is open in the sense that anyone can read it on the internet or join, but the ownership, rules and moderation are privately decided. As far as I'm aware there are no forums 'owned' by the public, and very few have no moderation.

The posters who are willing to attack victims do so because they must defend the Truth like it hasn't been known etc from devil spirits.The posters/victims aren't conspiring, the devil spirits are. Theattackers are not going to understand sensitivity and restraint. The only restraint that matters to them is getting deleted or banned. They had a few posts deleted, and Amurika is in deep trouble because they have no free speach??? Please. Getting the posts deleted got their attention. The possibility of being banned after x many infractions might get their attention, too. They need restraint from outside themselves--boundaries--because they have not got the normal restraints within. Perhaps Paw needs a warning system.

When I was in TWI I had NO IDEA Vic swiped out of the mainstream theology from little known scholars. I believed it was 'snow on the gas pumps' revelation that hadn't been seen since the First Century Church. Not until leaving TWI and finding GSC did I have any idea that the swiping actually occurred. I suspect this was the process for many ex TWI here.

I think the 'opposition' can give exway folk a good snap shot of what TWI doctrine can turn you into, so I am not really in favor of banning them. Their ugliness serves a purpose. But I have no problem with them being muzzled on particularly sensitive threads involving what could be delicate victims, who have already seen much harm. Why should they have to pay another high price to tell their story? And the fact that they can go after such posters is chilling. I think Pawtucket is well with in his rights and--not to mention his responsibilities--as the owner to delete such posts. Otherwise the stories might never get told.

I thought the Law of Believing thread took a great turn after the 'demon' business was flung around, and has been a great discussion. I haven't seen anyone be meanies to geisha, and she has certainly posted well thought out posts that are not demeaning to opposing posters. I also have not seen a great line between civil and uncivil posters lining up the Christian posters as civil and the unchristian as uncivil. Some on both sides are civil and uncivil.

They should have told us how the library card was full of devil spirits, but they were too busy with Y2K. I found one of the books in those articles ( the Run with Wolves one) read it. It was alien to my thinking but stuck in my mind. geisha--I am not going to analyze the churches I did and did not go to. We were members of a church where people were kind etc for several years, and before TWI I was raised in a church. I'm done with chasing Christianity for whatever it was that eluded me that others tell me certainly exists. My beliefs now are fluid, personal, empowering and yes, gentle, comforting and accepting while based on personal responsibility. My interest is self generated, not someone else' plan for my life(not that I assume that is where you are coming from.) I'm done with following others down their path. edited for typos

Trust me, kimberly, the five or six or so nonChristians that openly post on GSC have heard plenty of variations on the 'you didn't read-work-believe-trust-try hard enough' theme. Oakspear--I actually heard about the goddess or mothergod first in a church. Until then the biggest exposure I'd had was those way mag articles on Her story, with a smattering of new age stuff from way back in the seventies.

Definitely better. Easier? I'm not even sure what that means, you'd have to explainIs life ever easy? Since I spent my entire life until my forties in one form of Christianity or another I do not feel uneducated in Christian matters or Christian lifestyle, though apparently I totally missed the 'personal relationship with Jesus' experience so many talk about. During my Christian years I was sincere. After leaving TWI I was still Christian, I searched exway groups and churches etc. Then I stumbled upon goddess/Wiccan beliefs and for me it was like someone turned the light on. *Shrug* Why that is, why the other wasn't, I have no clue, nor am I going to persue Christianity into my old age, chasing something that just didn't work for me. If that is what you mean by easier, then there it is. It would be very hard for me to conform to beliefs I don't feel, just to please others or 'hedge my afterlife bets'. I'd be faking. Of what value is that?

Interesting--and civil!--discussion going on here. It seems reasonable to me that spiritual matters or beings/dieties cannot be objectively confirmed in our physical existence, five senses world. When we glimpse the spiritual, and make a connection to our physical life here on earth it is in the realm of unverified personal gnossis, an inner knowing that is real to the individual. Given the wide range of experiences and beliefs humans perceiveas truth it seems to me that there is no one definitive truth that we as humans can ferrit out. I think the one truth is beyond our human comprehension, though it can be glimpsed and understood in parts by different people at different times. Someone can tell me what the truth is,and be very sincere, but if it does not ring true in my inner self, if their 'proof' doesn't ring true within me, then I am just trying to please someone by accepting those beliefs, maybe out of a desire to be thought well of, or for some other reason, such as fear of consequences. Often it comes down to 'obeying' but there is never a definitive rule to obey. In my experience that changes depending to what group/person you are with. Interesting that many humans have told me how and what I must believe or do to be right or saved or blessed--but no spiritual experience has done so...and since choosing to ignore such human directives in favor of listening to what makes sense in my inner self--while I might consider those directives-- life has certainly been better for me.

(Context: Hi, Somewhat confused here and please bear with me. What did I miss? People are demons? HUH?) This would be a good example of the type of religion I consider destructive. There was no history of animosity here, just opinions calmly posted that Caveman disagreed with. This comment is not humorous or pithy. It tells much more about caveman than it does about Invisible Dan or Oakspear. And just wait--Soon a believer holding this attitude will soon be whining about how Christians are disrespected on GSC. Oh woewizus, see how we get treated! Will anyone get a clue??? Social skills, people.

I truly don't feel what you feel geisha. I think absolutist beliefs, one way for all mankind, lead to strife, division and break down of community and family, because it only works when every one agrees. If one changes, they become 'other', not like me, wrong, and that changes all kinds of relationships and actions between people, and when taken far enough by an individual or society, lead to enmity. Finding commonalities, building bridges, not seeing other religions as 'not right people'--and I believe it does lead to that--is ultimately destructive. I believe tolerance of difference is healthy. I do have hope, but my hope is that more and more that people will awaken to see if their choices build or ruin. We all have the freedom to pick our beliefs, and we can all evaluate the places they lead to as best we can. As far as absolute truth can be known--shrug--Christians don't have a one, definative doctrine, so it seems that that is not so. Perhaps the God knows the one truth, but humans do not.

Christianity is for the most part an exclusionary religion, and meant to be publically proclaimed so others will be won, so their book can be the only right book, just like their way can be the only right way. It is part of the Christian culture--those who don't like or believe in the exculsionary aspect either find a form of Chrisitanity they can work with, or move on to other beliefs, agnostisim ... People make a choice, based on whatever personal gnossis/ personal spiritual experience or lack thereof that makes the most sense to them. To many Christians, making the Christian choice is the only right decision humankind can make, which makes nonChristians wrong, of course. Chrisitianity ( some types) are in direct competition with other beliefs or lack of beliefs, thus all the motivational and sales type technique, join our team... Faith can be believed and lived but it can't be proved, IMO.

So sad that even in the 'kinder gentler' TWi members still can't maintain friendships with those that left TWi. Still, for TWI folk this has got to be the most exciting thing since LCM. I wonder if they will do a 250 radius for his concerts? Will the concerts have an overt'go to fellowship with TWI message? If he does bring in numbers, he could be the next Prez.