Bramble

I want a high capacity battery, and I can buy one reasonably, but it has to be soldered. The local shop wil charge me $65!!! I'd rather learnhow to do it myself.Plus steam punk jewelry is all the rage-- I could make some for ebay. Any sugestions?

It baffles me that anyone would uphold this doctrine about hell as good and just and loving...as somehow beneficial to ?? God? true believers?humans in general? What is the point, other than fear motivation? Comparing the hell doctrine to a parent's loving boundary does not make sense at all. Parents don't destroy or annihilate their imperfect children, or even their wildly messed up children. Plus, IMO, it-thebelief in hell for the unbelievers-would sooner or later start dividing people into the two categories--acceptable, like me(heaven bound), and unacceptable, not like me(the hell bound). Which might be exactly the point. Make the consequences for not believing or leaving the True Faith really high... So glad we don't live under religious laws/religious rulers in this country.

Why Would A Good God Send People To An Everlasting Hell? Indeed, why? Why, being All Knowing, All wise, All love, make a human, who through no fault of their own(the fall!) is so flawed, He can't abide his own creation unless they in life make certain decisions about belief that make them okay enough for heaven. All others--as far as I a can tell, the vast majority of all humans, get Hell? And yet, on the other hand, the same god portrayed this way is talked of having great love for humans, unconditional, sacrificial love, a just god. This concept of hell doesn't fit together for me. In a story it would be a character issue, out of character. It is not a universally held belief among Christians, either. I could understand hell for evil people, but this hell takes in more than evil people, it takes in those who are not of the right beliefs but who mau have lived wonderful lives, which makes justice seem missing.

Somewhat off topic: My kids caught lice in grade school and the standard shampoo stuff didn't get rid of them because some are now resistant. The school nurse told me to cover their hair in thick conditioner(the cholesterol kind) wrap them in saran wrap and a shower cap and keep it on for 8 hours too smother all the critters. Then a friend(not TWi) and I spent an entire morning removing eggs one by one with our fingers. It worked, it was cheap but not at all quick! The kerosene decision sounds like a punishment for getting lice. Twinky, I see you learned the same cheap trick!

We all know all Christians don't believe the same doctrine. How does a good God draw that line? What about non trinitarians? Those Christian that don't believe in an inerrant Bible?, The Roman Catholics, the Greek Orthodox, the TWI, the Mormons...what about the Christians who do not have a personal relationship with Jesus? Please note that my question is ON TOPIC and I have used no names or personal attacks.

My husband was one of the wows who got me in the class. Before we married though, I went wow, while he got dropped from the corps for going home to care for his ailing mother. My wow year was just a year of endurance. My wow sis and I basically bailed out our 'star' wow brothers numerous times since they couldn't keep paying jobs. Both wow bros were mentored by the twig area coordinator(corps) and signed up for apprentice corps, though for at least half of our wow year either one the other or both made no contributions to the household fund. They were the family coord and asst coord, too. Wow sis and I kept our mouths shut for some weird type of family loyalty to 'move the word' etc. Did I mention that our area coordinator gave us girls the job of doing all the household chores for the guys since we were going to get married and be wives? God and the ministry neede men to stand etc. We were successful wows--we ran 4 full classes. Mighty few of the new grads stuck around for more than a month or two. One came to the rock with us, met a nice guy and got married, they stayed with TWI a couple more years and we connected again through GSC . Hubby to be bought new tires and paid for a brake job so I could drive my car to the ROA to get pinned. I did not feel like a big victor! I gave up my teaching job to go wow, then moved to a state where I had a hard time getting a teaching job, moved again to marry...pretty much ditched the career as not that important compared to TWI/Word over the World. Hubby and I both just shake our heads about it now, since the time and money to get back into college is so hard to come by, but it seemed like a great idea at the time.

Sounds like only a rather small group of Protestant Christians with the correct type Bible interpretation make the heaven cut. The rest--Wrong doctrine Christians, Jews, Jains, Shintos, Moslems , Atheists, indigenous beliefs, Buddists etc all get to go to hell.

Heathen Horde--my first thought--strawberry meade!!!

I've considered this concerning my own involvement in TWI. I was raised Catholic, parochial schools, Catholic college. I was primed to believe in an authority structure that came down from One man. It seemed natural to me. Plus Catholics were raised ro be obedient...it was mentally perhaps an easy transition.

My last posts on this thread were to Kimberly and Rainbow girl--I had not seen geisha's reply about my 'complaining' prior to my last post to RB, who asked something about prayer. How people think of me or want for me is their business. How people treat me crosses the line into my business, and I feel I have the right to speak up.

So naming posters of a different belief 'swine' on GSC is an acceptable thing because it is in the Bible? Is this something like 'speaking the truth in love'? Think about it--Does anyone think of you as a swine? How do (Or would) you feel about them? Do their prayers for you warm your heart? As far as praying for my soul...I know the Christian concept of soul but I don't personally hold that belief in soul.To me that translates as praying for my mind/will because I see myself as one piece--no body and soul or body soul and spirit. I am one entity, me. People who love me think well of me, even with my imperfections. Those are the ones who really pray for me. `My views on prayer differ from yours. If the intent of the prayer is my health, great, obviously I want to be healthy--but if you actually view me as say, swine, ungodly, in need of changing beliefs and gods, then my view is that your prayer may not be in my best interest because your view of me is much different than my view of myself. Also, a common Wiccan or pagan thought on prayer that is against the will of the person being prayed for--say to change their religion/ beliefs to a different belief/truth-- is that is a manipulative act and brings the same back to you. I personally think that my adhearance to the belief that I should change others, held during my TWI years, brought some ugly repercussions into my life. Call it karma, or the law of returns or reap what you sow--I was zealous to change people, acted and prayed on that intent, and then had to live through people trying to change me, in a more intense way. While I don't want people praying for me to change beliefs etc, I obviously can't stop them, I know it is common. I don't pray for Christians to stop being Christians, it is not my business. Written after rainbow girl's post, i hadn't seen geisha's.

Just a couple points: I did not ask anyone for an apology. I though Kimberly was trying to smooth troubled waters and wanted to acknowledge her kindness. I do think refering to another person as swine is insulting, and the fact that it is in the Bible doesn't make it acceptable to me. But then, I was in TWI. I saw lots of ugly things wrapped in Bible verses, The Bible verses didn't make everything okay. Prayer should be an act of love,and love goes hand in hand with respect as far as I'm concerned. While I can't make anyone do anything or not do anything, I can state my opinion. In my beliefs, my health, well being etc are best helped by those who pray for me with whole hearted love. Intent involves the deep matters of the heart. I spent twenty years in TWI. I've read the Bible. I've gone to churches outside TWI. I was raised Roman Catholic, school and college(which I know is not Christian enough for some Christians). I didn't quit being a Christian because I hated it so very much but because I found something that spoke to me more deeply. I know what the Bible says about witchcraft. The Bible witchcraft/ poisoner/practitioner has no relevancy to my beliefs, though you may disagree. Where have I insulted the Christian God? Other than not being Christian and not pretending to be. And I am very sure you might find something I wrote in a snit but I doubt you'll find anything like that attributed to Oakspear. We are not joined at the hip and have actually never met and could even have different thoughts and reactions!

Kimberly you certainly don't owe me an apology! You did and said nothing wrong. But thank you, anyway. And as faar as Pollytics and tack--remember the IGNORE function!

No good advice at all. Our HFC had a history of interfering in marriages, though we didn't know that until we left and compared notes the first few years with others who had left the same fellowship. At the time, we couldn't quite believe it was happening. We were pretty naive and it would never have occurred to either of us to do that to someone else. Hubby and I meshed together well in temperament and decisions. The head of household arrangement was not really how either of us saw marriage modeled by our parents. Decisions, discussions, all seemed organic and not a power play so the heavy emphasis on Head of Household in the nineties seemed...odd, not really important. I was a grown woman, I didn't need to be treated like a 12 yr old. After you've discussed something a dozen times and looked at different decisions it is hard to remember who really said 'let's do this.' We were blessed to both come from families where the parents had good marriages. I wanted to leave TWI about two yars before my husband did but I didn't want to leave without him because i saw so many divorces and ugly custody battles in our area and I didn't want that. It's sad--there was no real reason outside of TWi ugliness for our lives to be so stressful back then. I think about how miserable we felt back then, and so many things were just fine--jobs, home, kids. Finances were not horrible like they'd been when the twins were born. But our involvement with TWI just sucked fun, money, time, interferred with family and friends. Ahh the Abundant Life!

I think fear motivation walks hand in hand with guilt motivation, an attempt to change behavior etc through negative means. Does it work? I guess. Does it make for a joyful, peaceful life? Don't think so. How healthy is it for anyone to constantly dwell on failings and mistakes and guilt and fear they don't measure up? Seems like life is just too short for that.

If you view others as far beneath you and TELL them so, that you are casting your pearls before their swiney selves (even though you really shouldn't be casting your pearls at them), then why would you be surprised when those swine are not humbly grateful for your prayers and interactions?

The Sea Monkeys wish you happy birthday!

I don't know if the gnostic view of Jesus played into abuse in TWI or in other groups though it would be an interesting study. I think obedience to authorities with no check and balance, having people with more power over others as an accepted standard, able to 'demand' actions from those lower than them on the totem pole, and the historical practices of forced marriages for young women, women historically having less political or legal power all play or played into abusive situations.

Does tolerance mean agreeing with everything another says? When you 'cast you pearls before swine' you meant Oakspear and I. TWICE But it must be okay because it is in the Bible! The Bible could never be used to take digs at people. Never! Then when you're called on it you cry victim. And I'm( and what, two or three others)are also responsible for the decline of the true Christians in doctrinal. Who knew? Did you tell paw? Please note that on Jeff's Jesus/Mary thread all I did was give Jeff some info. You, Geisha, took off from there. And now I suspect your motives even more.

Geisha, prayer should be an act of love. The eyes of love do not view a loved one as as swine. I see a discordance there. You don't? Discordance like that is for me a sign of trouble, something is not right. Reconsider. I believe the intent of the heart does matter, and discordance causes things to not work right. If part of your heart is us vs them, and the other part is ahh, I want to help...things get muddied, IMO. Prayer should be done wholehearted and clear. And probably none of this makes any sense to you but it makes perfect sense to me.

Yup, praying for me to change my beliefs to your beliefs is insulting to me. Calling me or other posters 'swine' because it is in the Bible is insulting. This is a multifaith forum. You can keep your form of Christianity. To me it looks ugly.

ANSWER ABOUT MY VIEW OF HISTORICAL JESUS COPIED AND PASTED FROM THE OTHER THREAD: Quoteing myslf: I'm not positive Jesus of the Bible actually existed, but if he did I think he may have been a wise and radical teacher who fit into the dying god mythos of the ancients... I do not believe in the divinity, son of God etc. How I should have answered: Off topic to this discussion.

Really what was the point--and why am I such a sucker??? Dangle the bait, dangle the bait. GAH. Dmd if you do and dmd if you don't. geisha, you already knew you were asking rank unbelieving swine--what type of answer did you think you were going to get??? Orthodox Christian ones??? And the swine/goat etc insulting titles may be in the Bible but that doesn't make them not insults. They do however, make me glad I'm not a Christian who has to spout such stuff. But yeah, you baited, I bit. You win.

I answered on this thread because I had read the Gospel of Mary Magdalene a few years ago and also read the Davinci Codewhich had Jeff's issue as the huge plot point--thought maybe Jeff wan't aware of the gnostic gospel.

Repecting me as an adult equal(which may not be the case, perhaps pagan/ unbelievers etc are not viewed as equals by some Christians--certainly not in our TWI backgrounds-- 'equals' means that my choices are respected. If there is a constant view and 'push' to change me--my beliefs, my habits, whatever, it to me implies a lack of respect. Not love. To me it is a matter of boundary hopping. While your beliefs are precious to you, when dealing with others it is not all about you. While we only interact on a forum it is not that big a deal, but if an aquintance constantly sought to change me to their religion I would draw a firm boundary line with them--and have. Being 'opposed' to other religions (or other Christian doctrines) is in my opinion the great weakness and danger of many Christian doctrines/Churches. I view that attitude as ultimately dividing communities, families, causing undo pain and division between those that conform and those that don't, to win a soul(a belief--soul--that I don't hold). Christianity as a sword to divide has no positive affect that I perceive.