Bramble

IF the only way WD can maintain his pro TWI stance is by bullying and taking threads off topic, and by stalking a certain poster, then yeah, I say he's in violation of the rules--by behavior, not by belief system. If you cannot distinguish wrong behavior because it is tied to your doctrine and the great debate/battle stance--or are willing to turn a blind eye to wrong behavior because it is in defense of the TRUTH, then you are so very sad. And kind of scary. If your belief system tells you it is okay to bully for the Truth... Hmmm... I do remember that from TWI. Criminy. Playing the victim card.

I was wondering if those vacuum pack amchines are a good idea. We can and freeze what we can. We can't have chickens in the city limits, but one of my neighbors has a pygmy goat smaller than many dogs. I'm not sure if its allowed or that no one has bothered to call the city! It sure is cute.

I can't see JL as any type of believing authority now, though I did when we first left. The nose spider stuff pretty much did it for me. I figure he and many others who have paying ministries(livelihoods) built on TWI will try to call the flock back now and then. That's their audience. Their power lies in continuing the movement of the Word like it hasn't been known since the first centurty church via VPW. I have not found worldly people to be more shocking and live in shocking ways. I'm not talking about gang bangers, meth dealers, addicts, hookers etc--my life rarely if ever intersects with those type of lifestyles, other than what I hear on the news. I was surprised when I got out of TWI(20 yrs in) that people in the world were more kind and generous than we had lived with our last decade or so in TWI. More concerned with their communities, schools and willing to donate time and energy to those. Hobbies and interests brought zest to their lives, and many had maintained friendships from childhood and were deeply involved with their families. Hubby and I are still somewhat social misfits due to all our years of isolation-- while others were maturing and building relationships, we were working very hard to stay obedient children in a small circle of people, putting aside interests etc because of our bizybizy ministry lifestyle.

I do have high hopes for the quinoa. We have sandy soil so drainage is NOT a problem and the backyard gets tons of sunshine. Hubby is diabetic and we've been buying it from the health food store to serve in place of rice since it does not elevate the blood sugar like white rice and cooks faster than brown rice. Sprouts nice for salads, too.

We live in the Rockies where the growing season is short. We plant our garlic in the fall and mulch it heavily. During early spring(which is pretty much winter weather here) we will water it during thaws, when the temps are in the forties. We get a really nice crop in late summer. Moving here from the midwest, we heard all kinds of dire warnings about the difficulty of gardening here, but we have found it best it ignore most of that. We do have to start plants early in a home made greenhouse( mostly peppers, tomatoes and broccoli), and we mulch alot due to high winds and dry air, but we've been able to grow most things we love. We finally have asparagus established, and this year we are trying a big bed of quinoa. I'm also doing a three sisters hill, just for fun (corn, pole beans and squash planted in the same hill.) We also have lots of tarps for those awful hail storms! We've decided to take all the lawn out of our back yard and replace it with raised beds, fruit bushes(elderberry, chokecherry, gooseberry) and wild flowers. The lawn requires alot of water here, and all we do is mow it and look at it, the kids really don't play in the back yard now they can drive.The quinoa is supposed to look much like a wild flower patch so I'm excited about that.

If anything, the posts of the last few days on this and the other thread have portrayed a belief in a powerful god--but not a just god, or a loving god, or a god who feels any responsibility about wht he created--unlike a parent --or even a rational god. A god who does what he pleases. Seems quite different than the Jesus of the gospels who seemed to care for the needs of actual individual people. But Jesus doesn't have much gong on in the fear motvation category. Seems to me that fear motivation is deeply ingrained in some types of Christianity, and accepted as a good thing.

If God, in a righteous, just, loving act, can kill a lier for lying, what then prevents his children followers etc from doing the same? Are they not supposed to imitate their God? Isn't that the type of thought that fuels religious violence?

I have many friends on facebook, my kids and their friends, my siblings, some cousins, a local mother's group and a couple of school friends( I'm there under my maiden name). Plus I use it for networking for my writing and have had a couple of neat opportunities through there. I don't play the games but my kids and my brother who travels alot have really connected over some silly games. I've never spent time figuring out the millions of games and applications, but I do pop in and see what everyone is up to everyday.

Rascal, many things can be learned from not actual accounts, but myths and storytelling...perhaps some records are just that. Didn't Jesus teach in parables--maybe others did, also, adn stories such as Jonak were perhaps not MEANT to be taken as black and white literal truth. A&S reads like a 3 act play, with repetition that seems not true at all to real life. Stylized.

I suspect you haven't read this thread since you don't know who A&S are. Sheesh. And yes, I am aware that people die. If you'd bothered to read the thread perhaps you could contribute on topic--all here know that humans die, that is not what we are discussing..

Yeah, who cares if people die? Who cares if there is no justice? Who cares! Human life is cheap! Obey your damm leadership, people. That's what is of UTMOST importance--the authority of the one true church! Don't you even dare to THINK a wrong thought. Look what happened to A&S. Destruction, death, despair, oh my. It Could be you next!

Death is the correct consequence for lieing to the holy spirit??? Does this sound in any way just or even reasonable to you? Really? And what about the Father god--is this the act of a loving father? Death?

Religion--Christianity included--has a long and bloody history of 'death to the unbeliever.' The thought, idea, permission has to start somewhere. I think this section of scriptiures is just such a starting place. Death for unbelief portrayed as a righteous act. And apparantly many Christians accept it as right and godly.

Sometimes the way Christians portray their faith and their god makes ME feel insulted FOR their God. Sheesh, so sorry Christian God. I suspect You don't mean what THEY are saying. And especially I feel embarrassed for the Christian god when the true believers are self righteous and scolding, while still portraying their god so unfavorably. It affects by stomach, truly it does. I'm heading away from the ugliness that is Doctrinal. I need something refreshing.

Am I talking badly about God? Perhaps what I am refering to is certain interpretations of this scripture passage. Not all Christians just accept it as great and good, as seen right here on this forum. You can call it good and just--death for lie--. I can have a different view point, as do others. So don't brand me with the 'insulting my god' business. It is a discussion, there will be different view points. Stuff like this makes me thankful I no longer have to swallow it and say something like-- 'oh, yes, it really is a great thing even though we can't really understand it.' --Or else my whole doctrine falls apart, too stay within the fold.

What really really matters to your God? Who dies in judgement for what? If you believe in a God that kills, that is. Or 'allows' killing/death through divine judgement. IMO the record seems too tidy to be real life, too convenient, something of a parable or moral tale. Another 'cognitive dissonance' section for the believers to wrap their brains around and weaken theeir ability to think something through. Then there is the problems of the lack of divine judgement and death on truly heinous crimes. Just the liars about money to the church. Why that? Why was that so important? Why were A&S deserving of a death sentence? Was it really justice? Doesn't look so to me. Looks like a tale to put fear in the congregation and increase the respect and power of church authorities.

I want a higher capacity battery in my palm tungsten and have ordered the battery I want. One of the IT guys at work will do it for me on a Satuday, but I still have a hankering to do it myself and he said he'd show me how. I'll check out Home Depot!

When my kids were little we lived in a big urban area. I volunteered in my kid's grade school for a couple years after teaching in rural Montana schools for seevral years. My kids did all right in the school, learned what they should--but there were just a handful of kids from families who expected their kids to behave and excel. We moved back west mainly due to the schools. Here we were able to get the kids in a charter school with very high standards and a curriculum similar to private schools we could not afford--Latin, logic, political discourse, classics like Shakespeare. They did have nearly an hour of homework a night, but by sophomore year they were easily a year or more ahead of the regular pubic schools. Our highschool has a program with the local junior college, so my oldest is able to take dual credit classes at the junior college--highschool credit and college credit. The kid will enter college as a sophomore. The budget advantages are obvious--this is paid for through a school funding system. Plus, kid is not bored. If we had not been able to move to an area where schools were better, I probably would have homeschooled. We were in a town with uniforms to keep out the gang colors, cops on campuses with dogs, check points etc, and a nearly 50% drop out rate. I guess I don't understand why such schools don't horrify more parents into taking action.

Yah--don't forget the spiritual 'chain of command'. Fellowship co-ord trumped husband. branch co-ord trumped fellowship co-ord, limb trumped branch, region trumped limb... many hoops for jumping! Insane way to live, with all those busybodies in your business.

I thought his comparison of TWI and CFF made Cff look like a better, less stodgy, demanding and expensive, organization. i don't really get his point. He wants people to go to CFF? http://www.myspace.com/451657883

We grow most of our herbs and find them easy to grow in our short Rocky Mtn season. Stevia doesn't grow well for us, the wrong soil ph, and I've not been successful with lavender from seed, so bought seedlings. Regular Basil grows really well, so we make tons of pesto. SOme of our oregano had no flavor so we replanted with Greek? Spanish? Not sure, but this one is flavorful. I keep trying to grow purple basil so I can make red basil vinegar for presents but no luck with that 3 years running. Chives are perinneal and are useable early in the season which is nice. I find chives don't give me heart burn like onions do. I grow chamomile( watch out, it can reseed and be a nuisance) for tea, and motherwort as a medicinal tea mostly for myself. We have echinacia but it takes 4 years to harvest and I like the flowers so much I'm not sure I will harvest. We grow alot of garlic, ( 3 twenty foot rows.) which we plant in the fall and water through out the winter when it gets above 40. That is harvested in July, and then we use the plot for greens. So many people we know think it so hard to grow and it isn't at all. I like to keep a pot of cilantro and basil in the sunny window. We dry ours in brown paper bags, then store them in the freezer.

The liturgy ofthe Catholic Mass was meant to be a journey of sorts to remember the sacrifice, combined with a sacred meal. I suspect it was one a transformative experience for those that knew and were instructed.

Sir G you brought to mind that both birth and death are profoundly transformative experiences to an individual and to the loved ones/family of the individual. There is a new baby in my family, my niece's child, a difficult pregnancy, a difficult life change for two college kids, a difficult birth with the baby a week or more in the hospital, and possible life difficulties ahead for that little one due to birth issues... young father who ran out halfway through the pregnancy now in tears at the hospital because his unwanted baby suddenly became very precious and not doing so well, all hooked up in neonatal on oxygen... parental and family joy, fear, remorse, relief, the knowledge of what might have been without medical care this baby received... The mystery religions had a sacrificial dying god, ancient grain and crop gods(grain, wine, bread and wine) the death transformed the god, and healed the land/people, brought forth renewal and abundance. A god's descent into death, (Innana's comes to mind), the journey, descent made them more and more vulnerable, stripped of their powers and wealth, but transformation was the end result. Symbolic death and birth are at the heart of transformation, and the descent into vulnerability like our own aging, makes us more and more vulnerable.

Sir G--'reminds me of a prayer practice that was taught to me by a certain rabbi where one prays to God for the wellbeing of an "other" while gazing into the eyes of that "other" completing the circuit "from God to me to you to God again" thus, sacrificing one's primary identification with a human ego" Moving practice. I read a book several years ago--How Ireland saved civilization or something like that, and it went into the monastic movement, and how vital that was for the people of that time. I think I will look it up and read it again

Thanks a bunch! I thought I might practice on some junk jewelry and then do the battery. I think it would be fun to learn.