Gen-2

I think you're missing the point, teachmevp. Here's the point. Jesus was raised from the dead. he now has a body that can trasvel theough the heavenlies to teach to imprisoned spirits in the deep, or be on the road to Emmaeus in one instant and somewhere else in the next. It can look like he did before or fool someone close to him into not being able to recognize him. And we're going to have one just like he has. Why overanalyze it? You'll haver one one day It'll be a body that can travel to the heavens and sit at God's right hand. It's not a body like anything you've ever had. It's part of your hope too.

Now then. if an angel can wrestle with a man he must be flesh and bone too,... right?

A whole lot stems from this as well. At First everyone was so sure Christ was going to return to the Earth at the mount of Olives as prophesied, and during their lifetimes and fulfill all the promises of the Messiah. He still will, but God had something in mind that trumped those activities for the time being. He had always wanted Children just like him,... spiritual children, children that would occupy the heavenlies with Him, fill His house. A new body, A new creation. God has always been a rather creative fellow. He did something NEW,.... and He had this plan from before he foundations of the earth, and no one else knew it, and it's not the old plan, it was a big surprise. In this plan, the slate is clean and the hope for those in it, is different than in the old plan. There is a New Covenant now. All things have not continued as they have from the beginning. Although many want to believe that.

In this regard, OldSkool VPW spent comparably little to make the PFAL Class (The Basis of the con) The Hook was the Green Card promises. In PFAL Advanced classes, cancer was described as being caused by Devil Spirits as well as it was in the Dealing With the Adversary class. It must have upset the master Con Man when he found he had cancer in his eye. Talk about kharmic effect. "If you keep doing that you're going to go blind" being a standard cliché for any sexual sin and cancer (which he taught to be caused by devil spirits) being Wierwille's actual cause of death. But we hear what the Way's carnival barkers all told us, "It cost the MOG his eye...." as though there was no cancer involved. The story was, how "The bright lights from filming the original PFAL Class caused irreparable damage to his eye,...." and then they would add,..... "What has the Word of God cost you?" The real question is - What will you provide our Jesus? Some sex, your money, some free labor? will you give enough to ensure the MOGs HOGs and Mini-MOGs and Mini-HOGs can lazily live off of you like leaches? The believe that is their right, yanno? This food chain gets hungrier as you get closer to the HOGFODAT, even when it's not hungry, it wants to eat. Can't sign up enough new people for WAP, yanno. Why are adults not signing up for the Advanced Class? why? Well send your children then, no matter how young. At the very BOTTOM LINE,.... The Way wants to be ~ FED ~

Sure. There's the third Group,... the Vast Majority. The Vast Majority has never been Way Corps. But they look at the Spineless WC and the Wannabe WC and find little there that seems attractive. The vast majority is leaving The Way International faster* than either of the above-mentioned WC groups above,... and largely because of them. The funniest thing is,....... The Way Corps is blind to that connection. * edited to add "faster"

And he wasn't charging them? (very rhetorical question)

I think Josephus would be careful about writing some things, The Herods were still ruling when he wrote, and their family had married into the Caesar's bloodline and there was a lot of angst between the Jews and the Romans as it was.

Hahahahaha! And OldSkool was only worried about his floss chart.........................

Damned kids,... you can hardly get them to go outside and create their own universes any more these days....

Bingo! My dad took a job doing work in a remote location outside of the US. He had a set of PFAL class tapes (Beta Tapes) the local branch was falling apart, people were leaving in droves The Guy he was supposed to turn the tapes over to left the Way. So he safed them in his attic and left for a year to work at the Ross Ice Shelf. When he came back there was no more branch in his area, and no one ever contacted him to turn them in - so he forgot about the tapes. Years later someone "witnessed to him", He told them - "You sound just like someone from the Way." They were. Still the person was witnessing, yanno? so they got a little defensive, because dad had heard of them. When Dad told them he used to be in the ministry but that he's left in '85 or so and that he had even ended up with a set of PFAL Tapes,....... they got all upset with him, demanding he return them (keep in mind this was like in 1990). My dad looked around in his wallet and found his Business Attorney's card, and told the guy to call him. He never did. Eight or nine years later, those were the tapes I listened to over and over after I finished Secondary School.

They lied to you.

Well,....... all their parents have already been.

Heck, I'm surprised that no one ever came up with a Greek word ready reference pamphlet listing all the Greek Words used in PFAL

You used to sing that in Fellowlaborers Waysider, didn't you? Poor guy. Were there hand motions? Oh,... sorry .....

Yes, and since the remnant mostly lives in Ohio these days, God has moved all the people alive that want to hear the Wayward Word - to locations they will be passing through. Good thing that out of the over Seven Billion on the planet Fewer than 700 will want to really-really-really know God this year He will not give them more than they can handle. It's nucking futts!!!

This is a very good point Keith. Someone in another thread asked me about words in the LXX (Septuagint) concerning servant and serve. So I cracked the books open aqand looked at the words and passed them on to her (JavaJane) in one of her threads. I included the word she would have to find in Strongs Concordance that corresponded to the words I gave her. The concordance does not list every form of the word, just one basic form. As an example, epilambano and lambano have different meanings But most of the time, strongs lists lambano for both - which is why I am convinced that VPW did his word studies through a concordance,.... because he always glossed over the fact that the mss might have an entitely different form of the word than Strong's or Young's Concordances listed. They generally just listed one basic form of the word, no matter what variation of it was in the mss.

No. Are the words of A Christian, even a prophet, quotes from Christ? No. Can they be? Depends on what you believe, as to how you'd answer that. Many people think the whole thing is complete bunk. God, Christ, and all Christians included. It's easier for them that way. To everyone, their own cup of tea, eh? But it is a very plausible answer to say that not all who turned away from Paul, ditched Christianity. There were others teaching while Paul was jailed and hauled out of Asia to Rome, for instance. People tend to forget their loyalty to the formerly present leaders Such as VPW and LCM, such is the case in the Way today I think, All have turned away from LCM, or they've left the Way if they haven't. He's been erased there.

Weirwille's love for this started earlier on. Those who took PFAL will remember VPW going over Versions of the Bible and how he mentioned the English Revised Version (RV) circa 1884? and the American Standard Version of 1901 as being two of the most accurate versions on the whole. The Way Bookstore stocked those versions. They also, early on carried materials from Zondervan, a Bible and Christian book publisher. Back in the days that TV was 3 channels and Black & White, Zondervan had the rights to the American Standard version of 1901. They were working with the Lockman Foundation on a "Literal Translation According to Usage" which was based on the ASV of 1901. They began in the early 1950's and published the first complete Amplified Bible in 1965. The Way along with all Christian clients on Zondervan's "Pastor's List" received advanced copies at the end of 1964. In the PFAL Class Wierwille put that Bible to advanced use as his very own "Literal Translations According to Usage". Sometimes they were slightly altered to suit his needs, but they formed the basis of much of his early "Research", along with other plagarized works.

I'm not sure that everyone turning away from Paul, equals - everyone turning away from Christ, but before that time there was the idea of I am of Paul, I am of Apollos and I am of Cephas [Peter] --- Splinter groups.... lol. Perhaps Timothy would be welcome where Paul was not due to divisions in that early church.

Depends on which one, there were actually several propouned over the Way's years. For instance lambano was supposed to mean to "receive into manifestation". Obviously this is a rather wide open translation which would be used to support spiritual matters. On the other hand lambano is used in the objective, in the Greek, and it is not a complete synonym with dechomai. Still, being objective, Lambano would be said to be discounted where the item received could not be held in one's hand, like love, joy peace etc.... Still God used it repeatedly concerning holy spirit, which you cannot hold in your hands. He must not know what he's doing. eh? Weirewille played fast and loose with the definitions he gave in the class, sometimes quoting the wrong greek words or just sort of making up a definition to suit his needs. Enoch never seeing death with his own eyes, for instance. He also irritated me by mispronouncing Hebrew and Greek words. Oh in the example of Paul being received in Jerusalem, suppose we take one of VPW's many definitions of Dechomai and see how easily the Wordsmith could have gone in any direction with his private interpretations,.... He could have said That received (When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly) meant: Received subjectively - leading to their teaching that they didn't "openly" receive Paul, being internally deceptive towards him. or they could use one of Wierwille's other definitions for dechomai Received into one's heart - leading to the thought that they received Paul warmly into their hearts, in spite of the fact that he really was looking for trouble, just being in Jerusalem, they loved the man dearly and listened to him. Wierwille's definitions were just that open to any need he might have.

I hear ya mstar1, and I pretty much agree with all your points. Keep in mind most of the "pubbers" are half-drunken or better at best anyways. They weren't blasting the average Joe, they were talking about the US Government's involvement, or rather lack of involvement. Another topic is that Obama is just out to shut down America's oil industry like Maggie Thatcher shut down Ireland's coal mining industry - by fiat. ehhhhh,... not wanting to talk about political messes, I just ate lunch.

Maybe I'll start up the SURE BET Bible Ministry, full of those who believe they only have a year to live. The Math and Science of the sure thing, yanno? The House will cover all bets, even if there are laws about this sort of thing....

Maybe you should scratch that itch (referring to your sig line) No news on the Gulf Oil Spill here in Ireland for the last week, Except that a lot of people in the pubs wonder why the Americans don't do more to help themselves. Everyone blames BP sure, ..... That made me think,... since I'm both American & Irish. Why aren't we doing anything? ... I mean, for ourselves - except letting BP decide who to pay and what to do... Why are we not responding as a nation. Thanks Bolshevik, for the pics. They're the sad reality of it

Thanks erkjohn, so basically it was Martindale filling in the blanks. His own, private version of what must have surely happened ~ those bastards in Jerusalem....

German via French Huguenots, and members of the Protestant Reformed Church of France