Gen-2

Thanks mstar1, I enjoyed that one! I'm not sure if banjo's can play sad songs?

All you guys can now shoot me.....

Hey I'm the kid here, but I'll assume that all those accomplishments the magazine the jobs were Way International related,... and the Ordination. Thing is - if you don't stand with that ministry any longer, not much of that counts. their college wasn't accredited, the ordination would be to a group that you no longer stand with or have any affilliation with,... the internationa Bible magazine is the Way magazine? And yes the fact that you don't say where you achieved all this is interesting. Why not put it all out in the sunshine? Just asking. If you say you're just sort of ashamed of that, I'll accept that. No problem. But if you're all proud of that. I'll likely want to know why you don't credit the sourse of your credential list there with the name of the ministry you took such pride in. I'm assuming you don't list the Way Ministry - because you're ashamed of it or fear that people will look it up and gainsay your accomplishments. Just as they do Weirwille's degrees and honors. I'm not out to get anyone here, not you Ken, that's for sure, but it's just damned odd that you didn't say where you researched, who ordained you, what college(s) you did your teaching/learning at. If you're proud enough to list those accomplishments and too ashamed to list where you accomplished all that, I feel sorry for you. ~~~ And if that's the case, you are here with the choir,... preach away, we know the words to this song. If I'm wrong in My assumption, pplease tell us what international magazine you write for where and how you were ordained. which colleges you graduated from and taught at. and which Foundation etc - you Researched for. But you know - I don't think I'm wrong Though you might have had the BA in Math before you went into the Way, I'll bet the rest is TWI related and that you'd rather hide that. That would be what you're upset about here I would imagine Someone might google it and find you out? ~~~ Hey, anytime someone hides stuff like this, it's like a Red flag. Hey I'm sorry you got hurt by the Way. You're not the only one. And you were a mindless groupie - happened a lot in The Way Ministry - Glad you finally got out. I will assume you don't still stand with them based on what you said. There is an incredible range of people here at Greasespot Cafe, belief-wise... and perhaps the only thing everyone here agrees on is that the Way wasn't ultimately beneficial to their life, so they scrammed, jetted - and in oh-so-many-directions! You'll probably be mad that I said you were a mindless groupie, but hell you admitted in your post that you stood in the water with the pirrahanas and complained about them. to me that's mindless.

I hope you guys don't mind if I contribute something here. I was only five or six when VPW died. My Dad however, lived through all that stuff - so I have a second hand story to pass along,... well, first -hand from him to me. He told me that he knew it was "over" when that Tape "Love Letters" came out. On it there was some mention that the word was going to have spread across the World by some certain year. dad said that he and a friend of his said to one another, well,... that's it then. it's over. Now, he also mentioned that LCM was teaching about the rise and expansion stuff at Avanced Class '80? [This was before Rise & Expansion became a seperate Way Class] & before He wore "tights". No growth, no life. If the word was over the world (and it was true that,... the Way was at it's Zenith then, expansion-wise), from there it was downhill. My Dad said the Way Ministry pretty much ended then. though it wouldn't become apparent for a while yet to many. He had a friend, who had a sister, who was Corps,... that had been approached By VPW as a motorcoach delectible one night. Apparently she had told some tale to her parents - who promptly disbelieved her (that part dazzles me) anyways my dad's friend (and ex WOW brother) believed his sister, and so my dad did. If I remember right this was in 1979. the Girl's name was Anna. she and her husband were in one of the WC's and she sang songs too. So some of you can figure it all out maybe. So it was not long after these things that my dad pretty much quietly walked out of the Way Int. He was never able to go into the Corps himself because he joined the military and had me all around the same time. (it really IS all about me -yanno? [snicker]) <kiddin',...kiddin'....> I remember my dad telling me - Well, if we'd moved the Word over the World, we'd done our job and it was OVER. Anything LCM did was going to be presiding over decline. Honestly,... hearing some of this stuff makes me feel sympathy for anyone with a nail-gun at the door of a tent...

Although I have no idea who many of those people are Thomas, I get the general idea there. I think the cinch for me was chasing some links left by Waysider that led me to nearly identical versions of "How to become a Christian" So the question after that point for me wasn't about whether or not VPW plagarized others (he did), but whether the information was correct in spite of the fact that he didn't originate the thoughts. Anyways, I realized the reason I had stalled out was because I was holding the wrong ideas. I had been viewing each manifestation as some sort of individual personal accomplishment of believing. nothing could have been further from the truth. So I just started making some rather kid-like demands of God. this led to me going out and playing test-pilot with some of this. and yeah, God really is the one doing the driving (sort of. that's a prespective thing) but I'm the one agreeing to go on the flight. I'm learning that I'm not the one who gets to call out the course though, and that it's not all about me doing this, or me doing that, but almost more about me having to decide how long I can hang on to the bar. I can also say that it can get sort of scary sometimes and that God is something I never imagined before - enthusiastic. Anyways I had a thought of a Dad teaching his kid to ride a bike. And it struck me that the training wheels are on. Even so I seem to be falling over pretty easy. A lot. I wanna learn how to ride this Bike better though. Now I already feel dumb and open to people's sniping at me about this as it is here. So I don't think I'll be revisiting this thread for a while. because I don't want to have to try to defend what I'm saying here, I'm not sure I'd know how. It seems like this is more of a doing thing than an intellectual thing anyways.

Sono certo che è vero.... Tecnicamente, un hovercraft può essere classificato come appartenente alla classe degli aeromobili ed in tale ambito, un aeroscafo o anche aeroscivolante. Il successo commerciale degli "hovercraft civili" ha sofferto per la rapida crescita del costo del combustibile. Ma,... tra i metodi di pesca all'anguilla, l'hovercraft regna sovrana!!

In either case, the point about God using it as a division in times, eons, ages ... holds. And the division is similar in either case the end of the last world (if it means Overthrow) or the beginning of this one (if it means Foundation). But Katabole - thrown down as a literal term would indicate what is physically thrown down or against - as you throw down the foundation of a building, upon which to build. To use the word to describe "Lucifer's Overthrow" is to use it figuratively, where it's an idea of a rebellion that failed, and reaped consequences for the Physical creation. The point is that - translating katabole as Overthrow is a figurative, not a literal translation. It is used that way concerning breaking a city down to it's foundations in a third century document i read once. but,.... that could have been influenced by a change in usage of the word over time and i can't say it meant overthrow over two-hundred years earlier when Paul wrote But it was doubly used, which caught my attention to the katabole to the katabole or the idea of taking down the city to it's foundations (concerning a military conquest). So this word was use in more than one way in the past. That shouldn't be a cause for concern, as we ascribe more than one meaning to a great many words today. It also doesn't mean I sat down with Paul to write His Letters and have the be all and end all view on what he meant when he wrote, or know with certainty who the author was, but Paul was the writer. You could take something as simple as this katabole and invent a religion but in other plaves it uses the word kataklysmos. Katabole and kataklysmos are not the same and kataklysmos is more along the lines of cataclysm eh? Does that matter?

Not sure I understand you correctly cman, but I can explain myself a bit better perhaps. there are certain situations which arise where I basically know/feel as though There is something there that I should pay attention to do, and if/when/as i do i know more, so that the doing and the knowing-what-to-do seem to work together, all at once. Thyere's more to it than that but that part goes beyond what you said here as I see it, and begins to take the shape of things happening rather than things being said. and no - no clear-cut "voice" and yet it's all very clear. I had the thought that it was like riding a bike in a tornado with no hands and once of being protected from my stupidity. well that probably doesn't make sense too much. but my initial objective was to go and DO, and I've been doing so. I'm not at all of the belief that there are nine seperate "manifestations" anymore. and it just seems to be that it all goes almost at once as it's needed. But you really are jumping into the deep-end of the pool.

Okay sorry guys But I felt pretty stupid posting what I did and Decided to shut up till I knew what the plant was. It's still alive and it's a Cherry Tomato plant. Now It's gotten Bigger but it doesn't have any tomatoes on it. And it fell over - so My older Brother Josh visited me and got it a Bigger pot and put a stick in the pot and the plant seems to like to grow on the stick. Good news is it's still green and my cat, Meemer, hasn't decided it's in a litter box. It looks like a little bush in an oversized pot now. I have it up by the kitchen window to get sunlight and I figure I must be watering it okay. I water it every other day. Right now a friend is taking care of it and Meemer for a couple of weeks as I'm on Holiday. It's about a foot tall. josh said if I put it outside a bug will appear and eat it. He told me Tomato plants can naturally produce Bugs, it's one of their specialties. He's also the one that identified the plant which I bought at Wegmans (Grocery store). So,... who knows when I'll be getting tomatoes? hahaha! Oh and I have grown stuff before, just never in an apartment over an Ice Creame Shoppe, but out in the garden. and none of these indoor bush tomatoes.

Of course the main dilemma in this line of reasoning, is that the Bible says that believing is necessarry - and this line of reasoning slams the door entirely on shut on any further thought. I do know that if you simply do not believe it, you have made yourself correct, in that you have made all the manifestation of spirit impossible for you. And whoever told me that God will work with you on this stuff if you try it was right.

Okay, OK,.... everything Paul said was God's inerrant word,... especially in the original King James English. >snicker<

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. So how much of "thine own understanding" is required? Is it such that if you do not know every detail,... you're just screwed? In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes.... So He can direct you paths,... or uh,... or you can? ...or we can let Paul do it... <grin> It would seem we have optionsI went over this with a friend of mine who smirked and smiled and squirmed a bit and said,.... "Well in the *CHURCH* you don't have to think for yourself; Other people will conveniently do that for you." he continued, "God's advice in proverbs three is for the individual, and sits there to help level the playing field. See Katie," he said, "If the Brtain trust at the church goes Whacky Nu-Noo, ...You have to rely on God and common sense and a does of wisdom to keep your feet from getting you where you shouldn't be. If you have to choose between God and Man, always pick God, even if you lose a friend in the process." It sounds rather harsh, but has an overriding ring of sense, since ultimately we'll have to stand there and see what gets burned and what gets rewards, and it won't matter then what those "Church" people said back in the day,... just what you did with it all.

So noted mstar1!!! Though there is no proof of a correlation between Wife and Husband on this. Hubby had a definite set of pronblems/issues....the Bear gets 2 Big Gold stars!!! Ya made me laugh and that's nearly priceless!

Song of The Day Cracker Jack Jingle by Sailor Jack and his dog, Bingo What do you want, When you gotta eat somethin', And it's gotta be sweet, And it's gotta be a lot, And you gotta have it now? What do you want? Lip-smacking' Whip-crackin' Paddywhackin' Knickaknackin' Silabawhackin' Scalawhackin' Crackerjackin' Cracker Jack! What do you get, When you open the top, And look inside, And smack your lips, And turn it over, And spill it out? What do you get? Lip-smacking' Whipcrackin' Paddywhackin' Olagazackin' Infolackin' Alliganackin' Crackerjackin' Cracker Jack! Candy-coated popcorn, peanuts, and a prize... That's what you get in Cracker Jack!

I bought a plant. I will try not to kill it. and before you ask,... NO,... I have no idea what kind it is (it had a tag when I bought it) It's currently green. I am thinking this is a good sign. I am not a plant person.

Yanno,... I was thinking the same thing not long ago...

Okay,... So the Missus was - but no longer is, in a cult, She was "Rescued" That verbage makes me think circa ~ 1973-8 And stories I've read about "deprogrammers". I'm reading this "Deprogrammers". It's a WAG I'll admit, and I wasn't born till 1980, on Sept 11th BTW, which was only September the 11th back then. ...oh it's not funny and no 911 wasn't the Muslim world's Birthday Present to Jesus....... So stuff it...! Still My question went to the old Guilt by association thing (as others have surmised),... besides, Not even the Way trained People to fly airplanes into buildings Or was that the Secret LEAD Air Corps.... Maybe they can dig up some dirt on the family Dog too........ Also strange is that this woman found someone this "My WAY or the Airways... macho about life" ...says volumes too - just not about the dude, who was an obvious nut-job!

Anyone clarify for me,... who was in the "Cult" Mr or Mrs. ? It sure looks like it's saying misses Stack was, and for four years. I wonder if they would have mentioned her oterwise?

I'll be expecting the Tax Hike to pay for a new IRS Building anytime now....

The - whatever Paul said, is whatever God said - thing, is something I've paid attention to a lot in the past. Okay so - first you have that concept that God is the author, even though there were many writers. So okay,... I can buy into that because God outlives them all anyways (for one thing). But in places it's clear that what God has had recorded, do not reflect his views, but rather, accurately describe the views of some person(s). Sometimes it even says this outright, such as "But I speak this by permission and not of commandment." Interestingly enough my parents almost broke up over this and some really terrible advice being given to them (By a Way Leader) as though it were a commandment. So the scriptures are pretty clear on this. It's possible for the words to be giving us Paul's understanding of a situation rather than God's - even while it's God telling Paul what to write. I think about those men (prophets?) who accurately wrote concerning the manner of their deaths before they died. Some of Paul's "logical arguements' seem strange when I ask my self IF I can envision GOD making the same arguement. Well no, not really I can't. If God were saying it, it would sound silly. --- "...Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?..." --- well, duh...! In most of Paul's writings the letters seem to be authored by Paul, written by Paul. I'm just saying that, that's the style they are written in. They convey God's will? well,... they tell the story God wanted told. You get free choice out of the starting gate, you read it, you decide. If you love God, you'll probably trust him, if you were in twi, you'll unserstandably be cautious of any man. IT's one heck of a position to be dumped into. I'm not sure of - at what point - you begin to trust God. There's been so much written on the subject across so many years by so many people. But choice is key!

Yes Roy, and I read your longer version of this in the "Speaking in Tongues" thread. We know that God gave those dreams to Joseph, and the interpretations, according to the accounts. It would seem that the Lord God enjoys working with people. Your view of them being a form of tongues is unique, though I have heard something like it before in a Pentecostal church sermon. They were more interested in the Interpretation side of it.

Yeah B,.... But why does it just seem logical to me (taking the position that the record is true) that if Moses hadn't raised his Hands - none of that would have mattered"

I always thought "dreams" were a form of revelation, much like "visions", the difference being a wakeful state. While I don't have a set of nailed down rules, its clear that God is capable of, and has used both. Either that, or reading the bible is a worthless chore. To me the "naming" of it is sort of a moot point, as my attitude is that God gives you what he wants to give you, but according to what you're asking about, have asked about. Interestingly then, it wouldn't matter (from my point of view), if you called this a dream or tongues (or a rubber chicken). If God gives it to you, you have to figure out if you want to ignore that or do somethihng with it, and if you ignore it,... well then "who cares!" and that's pretty much the end of that particular activity. It ain't gonna go any further. As to the speaking in tongues thing. I think it's genuinely given by God. When I started doing it I hadn't heard of the Way,and a lot of people do this outside of the Way. And while there are a lot of religions that disagree on the nitty-gritty, nuts and bolts of it, a lot of people that ask God for this manage to speak in tongues. Even people that attend no church have spoken in tongues. There's also the bit about them being deluded that comes to mind, but by the time people get to that bridge and start lumping people into that category (of delusional people). As with any human endeavour, I'm sure the tongues people have their share of delusional people, but they seem to be a minority. Can the Devil send a devil spirit off to posess someone and make them speak a language they never learned? Sure, why not. But those instances don't invalidate God or his spirit working in conjunction with a person. But the result, the fruit, is how we know. I mean, does it do that individual any good? I don't mean the intrinsic, speculative kind that can't really be weighed on the scales of life. I mean some tangible, positive result. If, all it does, is sucks time and energy and possible hard earned finances out of their lives for no return, I have to question their priorities. It's also amazing how people will allow that "sheepy" feeling to overwhelm them, and look for a Shepard. We all do this. I do. You do. At least on occasion. We look for role models, examples, etc. in life and when they fall we love to critique them. You see it everywhere in the news - sports stars, celebrities, politicians and on and on it goes. So it's Human nature that "once burned" it's ALL wrong, whatever IT was. And we're quick criticize IT. ...even the parts of IT that did have some value. I mean, we weren't sucked into IT because it had no appeal, or no value. A wonderful Dinner with very small amounts of poison is deadly, or can make you real sick. Who wants a fork?