Gen-2

Just strap a buttered toast to a cat's back Hold the cat up in the air and let go. The cat wants to land on it's feet. The toast wants to land butter side down Naturally the two cancel out and the cat spins like a motor. Physics is boggled and perpetual motion is achieved!

I don't think Satan is in subjection to God at this time. He seems to be doing pretty much what he wants to As to The light of the world being Christ, he himself said this John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. Matthew 5:14-16 (King James Version) Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Revelation 21:22 23 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. As long as I am in the world. he was he will be again he isn't now I really think it's supposed to be us now. I still think we're not really good at it. Still, if Jesus was wrong, we've go it easy,... who am I to complain If the Satan is in subjection to God, God don't do a real good job subjugating him. Who then has the power of death? God and if so why did he kill my mom and dad Oh I think Satan is out there and rather unsubjugated,... honestly

No worries. I just sort of stayed away a bit. I thought I might have offended you, infact. I don't mind debate on points but I'll give any strong opinions I have. That doesn't mean I don't value your opinions or Roy's or anyone else's. No one here is dead, so none of us are authorities on the subject, and I hope none of us want to be. When Roy originally started steering the conversations he was having towards death, I didn't know, wasn't sure if he was considering doing something stupid in that regard. That's mainly why I backed away. I hope you understand (I can only guess at what people really think), I try to be careful about that kind of thing. At any rate, it wasn't some adverse reaction to you, or anyone's views. This topic is actually being touched on in other threads at present

The crux of the matter - with a story is always similar to the following examples: If you have never personally seen the Eiffel Tower - you can argue it does not exist (people can lie and pictures can be faked) George Washington never existed There never was an American Revolution, you can't prove me wrong you weren't there, all your sources ARE lies. There never was such a person as Elvis Presley, it's all made up. Americans never set foot on the moon, it's all a lie There really was a Giant man named Paul Bunyan and he really did travel America with a great big bright blue Ox. Everything we do not personally witness is a story. Your mind decides to believe it, or not. If you don't and others do, you consider it folklore, myth, urban legend.

Yer killin me Tzaia. That was a milk out the nose comment!

Okay so the Adulterers kicked out the homosexuals,.... and then,.... when the shoe was on the other foot,... ~~flip-flop~~ The grass is always greener...?

Totally Awesome!

Oh MY GOD!!!!!! You mean,............................ .......................................................................... They're sinners? Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Matthew 18 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. So God forgave us all our sins... Ephesians 2: 1-6 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: I guess these days,....... you have to be born into the household via the first birth, otherwise you're not allowed into the house?

It's the locked thread called "THREAD" - excatherdra, prolly an ADMIN perk we just don't get >>snicker<<

Kinder & Gentler? Well they can't Mark and Avoid ten thousand people, because there aren't 10,000 left (is mostly why).... And to shiftthis... I'm just a gal that was never in The Way herself, still it's part of my life. You can request to have copies of all those court documents sent to you via the freedom of information act. You'll get quite a bit more than what Greasespot has available. If you get an attorney to make the request, you can get even more (I'm not sure how they can do that, but they can). I did. and there's more than just the suggestion in those documents of the matters I mentioned above. At first LC Martindale was going to fight the suit, during the course of things he was "removed" from running the ministry. This happened after the info on DM and RR was introduced. Donna knew for over a decade that her husband was a soup sandwich for sex. So she formed other attachments. Anyways, you're right about one thing shiftthis, If they find you looking into it, or asking about it, they'll kick you out. Especially if you are suspected to know the truth. And you won't be the first one that's happened to. I have no personal beef with you. The Way Ministry is - sort of kinder and gentler now,... no more mass excommunications, but (EASILY) 90% of the old Ministry are gone As to Asia. All Asia forsook Paul. But Paul did not kick them out.... Nor did Paul have sex with their wives and daughters. There is a difference, you know Donna and Rosalie knew about L.C. Martindale for over a decade, and said nothing till they were about to be exposed for what they had allowed and were doing. They're not going to let some schmoe like you, learn, and then tell, the truth. They'll crush that, you're right. But it's really pretty easy to find it out A quick visit to the home of Rosie's friends and a chat with the neighbors,.... but I don't want you to get kicked out if you want to stay in.

But Shiftthis does..... Here there has to be a question. You believe the allegations about Rosalie Rivenbark are false and that those making them are liars. Would it make any difference if you had proof that this was the truth? What would you do? When Martindale was in charge, people were face d with that same choice,... MOST, did nothing. many of those people are still in The Way International today, and some people still don't believe Martindale did anything wrong. It's easier to say, "It's a lie" than to look into it. There's always that uncomfortable fact that when you discovered it to be true, you'd be forced to do something if you had any spine at all. Not looking into it is far easier. The tweo women who have stayed with Rosalie Rivenbark also have lives outside of Way Property. It's interesting to note that people who are so very close to RR, living under her own roof, have such private personal lives. Would it stun you to learn that they live together. Yes shiftthis, you're a good ostrich. You've never looked into any of it seriously (It's not actually that hard to do yanno?) It's easier to believe others are lying, That requires no time or effort on your part, no expense, and less personal aggrivation. It would be terribly uncomfortable for you to discover the truth that people that refuse to do as THE WORD instructs are welcome in her home. Heck - you're paying for it. Better to deny. It's easier. That's how Martindale got to be such an idiot. He counted on people like you to stick their heads in the sand, until the Allens called his bluff and exposed him. But LC Martindale wasn't the only one getting his jollies. His wife and RR were into all that too. the Allens didn't sue them,... because they weren't in charge of the Ministry. But they did mention D.M. and R.R.'s indiscretions to the judge. The judge mentions this offhandedly in what is public and when R.R. and D.M. were informed, they quickly subordinated their case and paid the Allen's off to NOT carry their lawsuit into a court of law. Easier to be an ostrich......

I really want you to be more specific about that, if you would, because I'm curious. I would think that this is figurative language here Since I don't know how to touch a dead soul,... much less a live one. I didn't know that the sense of touch could be applied to souls I always thought a Body without a soul was a corpse and there were rules about dead bodies and being unclean under the law. I was pretty sure that this is what that verse meant. But you seem to be saying souls can be handled, at least dead ones. How?

when I personally inquired, I was told that I was not welcome in Way Fellowships, because of my father's name. But he's dead. That's a helluva way to run a railroad. So I see a reluctance to allow people in and if you do something that displeases them like the Mona-V thing their response is to send you away to a place where they are not. This brings me to think of the word shiftthis uses,... household. This is what he sees the Way as. God's Household. In this sense, as I understand this, the Family of God is all those born-again, but the household is the standing believers, If they are the "household", no one else in the world is as close to God as the Way International. Their Household has become more insular than ever. There's not really any pressing need to witness much, any more, as the ministry's old goal of Word over the World was achieved long ago. People that are punished are given that opportunity. When people venture out into the world or on the web they are often told to quit doing that, desist, or shut down their sites. They are not to be talking toother people especially Christians. Something that has bothered me about the Way (now you'll have to understand - I was never in the Way) is that they they aren't charitable. They don't reach out in their community to help others, and it's commonly reported that they don't even use their people's donations to take care of one another when they have need. Perhaps that's because the Organization is now so small that they simply cannot afford to help those who are in need. I'm not sure, just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. maybe they could build a community playground if they're low on funds, do something. Every week is a new week, you know. One in which you can reach out. I hear that they don't help their own people with the abundance they collect from them. I mean when an individual has need. The widows and the fatherless and so on... They're told to believe. How many people in the Way wear glasses? Are they unbelievers. Why do Way people get sick if God favors them? Have they no one that knows how to use gifts of healings? Seems like their leadership that puts people in rememberance of their believing would simply step in and tend their own flock, and heal them like a good pastor would, unless of course, they can't. I've heard these things from several people in the Way Money and Healing rarely make their Way down to the "regular" believers, in fact, it's more likely that the regular believers will share these things with their leadership. I look at churches in the US, When there's a disaster in the world, their people come together and donate. The church organizes and delivers the donated goods/money to those unfortunate souls abroad or in our country. Happens all the time. Unless you're in the Way. You don't see them reaching out much, beyond their "household" unless they're being punished.

So basically, you don't have a website. You don't have any credentialls. You can't offer any testamonials after 50 years. You won't respond about your credential or your name. You may love people, I can't tell. But clearly you enjoy attacking them, that's evident to anyone reading these posts. It's the one thing you're really really good at. And it makes you happy.

Actually it makes perfect sense if you understand it, why both are referred to with the word light. But certainly, you don't believe in the "storybook" as you call it, so you don't believe in the existence of Lucifer. Thefore,you're just argueing points you deny and being silly. That is, of course, unless you have your own version of "srtorybook" characters. If so start a thread.

Indeed he is, but he's absent and the Devil is running the kingdoms of this world. So he's the light that's on somewhere else. You can make the arguement that he is present through us, lighting the world, but we haven't exactly figured out how to extinguish darkness on a reliable basis.

That "All things" phrase pertains to this earth the one which is now. When it ends, All Things about it get settled, and All things go back to God's control He (God) launches the new Heaven and the new Earth He (God) makes Christ the light of that world By this time, we shall know even as we also are known and we will have power But every star differs in glory and That how it will be with us, Still,... We will imitate Our Father, and strive to do what He does. But insofar as worship goes, there is only one that is Good, and that is God As his children we will do those things that please our Father Any Glory will be to God But "all things" is not the end of things There will be new things.

I just had to cut back to answer this one. and I've gotten weird looks enough in the past wjhen I get excited about a subject, to learn and to maybe to explain this right so I don't sound like a Nut An electron circles the Nucleus of an Atom. Around it goes at the speed of light. pretty fast! we talk about "an electron cloud" it looks like a shellrather than a single electron. An electron can be a particle or a wave. it can disappear and reappear. We presume that when it is not around it's atom - it's around another Atom in another dimension. But if it leaves ours, one from another dimension appears in it's place. pretty cool eh? Apparently the little electrons just know where to be,... and go there, wherever they are needed. Eternity is plural (The idea is plural) so perhaps the word Eternity is a bad word, since it's singular - Heavenlies are places. Ages are times. God sees them all at once.

As for Jesus preparing a place for "us" (John 14 context); in his "Father's house" with the many "places to stay", I must say that he was speaking to Jews and that before Pentecost 28 CE. This means a lot (or little for those who conflate dispensations…) and has ramifications for the "heavenly Jerusalem", that "city whose Architect and Builder is God" (gotta' love those engineering references in the Bible) and the Christian's part in ETERNITY (Oh, how I despise that very unbiblical word…lets say the Christian's part in the coming "ages"). --------------------------------------- Indeed it is talking about the Jews (and what's a C.V.?), yet it's quite instructional as he's talking about the New Jerusalem. You're right, and that is a place. Yet he just happens to mention that there are many Mansions, abodes,... whatever, before he gets specific with them about that one place which he will prepare for them. Jesus isn't going to prepare our places. But God's natural born children, born of the spirit, are not going to be homeless either - and they are not going to steal the bride's house - it belongs to the bride and the bridegroom As to Lucifer. In the past he was the light of this world, he was the bright and morning star. When Christ sits in the New Jerusalem - he, the Lamb, shall be the light of it and Lucifer shall be gone. I presume from a verse in Ezekiel that Lucifer kills himself and that the lake of fire is not eternally in existance. Lucifer was originally responsible for Venus, Michael for Mars, and Gabriel for Mercury the one that showed the most skill and aptitude in developing his world was given the prize. Lucifer won and the Earth was his. His charge was to develop a being that could understand and believe God's word. He spent a long time on this project, with many failures and wrong turns along the way. He has always been in charge of one third of the angels. They worked with him towards Lucifers goal, both before and after he received the paradise of Earth as a prize He was perfect in all his ways. Eventually he "pushed" a mammal and that mammal turned out to be the ticket. It began to understand God and could grasp spiritual concepts. It could see the cosmos and know there must be a creator. it began to worship. This inscensed Lucifer. After all the hard work he had worked after the billions of years, he was not going to simply turn this prototype, finally all but complete, over to God. He knew God would favor this creature and He would have actual Sons through them. Sons he would favor more than Lucifer. He would NOT have this, and he rebelled - wanting the worship of that man for himself. He rebelled along with those who had worked with him and become loyal to Lucifer more than to God. There was war in heaven and Lucifer lost. The windows of heaven broke loose and the whole of space was overflowed with water. everything in existance perished. the light of the world was gone and without it the firmament collapsed. Light forces the waters of the deep back to their set bounds beyond our universe. God shook the Etch-A-Sketch and began over, This time he just went straight to putting man on the earth after cleaning up the mess. On his belly the serpent went, completely humiliated as he saw God do it all in six days. The sons of men/god that you mentioned is still a subject that depends on what you're looking at. That "so shall we ever be with the Lord" doesn't mean place but manner. check it out again but in what manner will we ever be with the lord? I know people that think we're just eternal Body parts of the only begotten sonand that New Jerusalem is the only place that there's going to be in the future. Understanding this correctly allows you to see why the Bema is different. There's a danger in blowing off the administrations. In thinking that the gathering is the same as the resurrection of the just. It makes Christ's first coming of little effect and you'll never understand the Bema throne, But God holds to accountability. While He will not harm a one of his children. Those who did wrong will be punished in that there will be consequences for bad behavior in the nursery (our time now). There's also a danger in getting into all this dispensation stuff. God doesn't count dispensations, people do. God count's times, ages - eons. God knows how people see though and tries to relate some concepts to us. Some things are easier for us to understand as knowledge increases. The main reason that Genesis 1:2 IS SO MESSED UP in the minds of many is because of how people used to view the world. I have another experiment soon and have to go I don't have time to put all the verses, or explain why all that's of God - maybe some other day, but anyone can figure it all out on their own if they want to. I don't do books. And if you think it's all hooey,... well --- okay. Your call to make isn't it?

Old film was 24 frames per second. I've heard professors explain time like your ball but in the film example, they say it's like watching that one frame as the film plays, race past you; that single film cell being a moment of time in a linear progression. Time is just one factor involved in Eternity, because Time and Space are interwoven, and just as our vision of time is muted where we only see the current frame we also only see the current place (out of all the places there are). There are an infinite number of "Places" and each experiences "Time". When Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us,... well,.............. There's a place for each of us, reserved according to our names, and each of us will have our own place, our own universe, and within it we will take up the family business. We're going to be just like our Dad. Although only he will be God, we're going to be a LOT more like him than you have imagined. God tried this with the angels once, on a small scale, the three archangels whose names have ever since been associated with an inner planet. The prize was earth and the winner found himself in Paradise. In the end he rebelled. We're made better than angels. This is also true of those who died as adoptive kids, whom God loves, But those children will be Earthbound - we will not be. I have to be in the lab today but I'll bring the laptop and try to keep an eye on the posts.

Basically I just screwed up and put the wrong name there is all, sorry.

By the Way,... I ONLY take responsibility for crop circles, a few questionable events surrounding the assasination of U.S. President Lincoln, most of WWI and some of the current economic downturn, the Taming of the Shrew, the San Andreas fault line and ....let's see...the whole Janet Jackson costume malfunction at the Superbowl sever...al years ago...yeah...that was me. Other than that, I'm pretty much clean. WHEW...that felt good, I'm off for a walk!

...Just wanna ride on my My Mo-tor,... Cy,..............................

I kind of get the feeling I should go sit somewhere else. The ideas I have about the subject are being ruled out one at a time, so there really isn't any point to bringing them up. The last verse Sunesis quoted is the key to understanding who we are

I'll look into this this weekend Steve. I wonder if this is related to that old Motus Tonicus of the German guy Stahl {which I think is a crock} but that theory was sort of Voodoo medical science anyways. A Tantric thriller that could have explained eternal life or could have been a recipie for schnitzel. Oh... And string theory arose out of fractal mathematics, not Physics. It probably wouldn't have been pursued if it were not for computers and Mandlebrot sets, Those things are incredibly full of cascading repeating algorithms, but only when you start plotting them and graphing them do you see that each fractal can form a different, detailed picture. It's eerie that these things seem like instructions, blueprints if you will, for things we see in nature. But mostly - they were pretty! Just google Mandlebrot Set and look at some "images''. Well they let Particle Physicists in on this and M-Theory quickly arose and proved to be a mess. Then the Astronomers and Quantum Phycisists like me got a hold of it and we just started guessing about everything in a free-for-all of excitement (we're so undisciplined). Soon there was almost as much laughter as fact! We're still sorting out the mess we made. Right now it's other dimensions, God Particles and anything "nano" that causes great gushes of excitement and funding. As for String Theory,... most of the physicists don't know all the math and they are an unhappy and denying lot when they're made to look foolish. I look forward to Tonic motion though. I have a glass with ice in it standing by.................!