soul searcher

I am, and probably always will be. Speaking of which...maybe somebody here can save me some time and tell me if I'm likely to find any truth in teachings by John Schoenheit, Wayne Clapp, John Schroyer or anyone from the from CFFM/STF/CES combine? I'm currently plodding though some classes that an ex-TWIer (I was never one) friend recommended and I'm quickly becoming disenchanted with much of it.

Interesting. Thank you. (My emoticons don't seem to work when I'm on this computer, or I would have inserted a smiley face here.)

That makes their accuracy even more questionable, doesn't it? So what is your belief, that JC carried the cross all the way, part of the way, or not all? Having been raised Catholic and seeing depictions of the "Stations of the Cross" in almost every church I've been to, I was always under the impression that JC carried the cross most of the way (with help from Simon). It is only after having actually read the gospels that I realize he might not have carried it at all. [fixed]

Thanks, John. So...Matthew, Mark, and Luke didn't think it was important enough to mention that Jesus carried the cross at least part of the way? That doesn't make sense to me. (And it doesn't have to make sense to me, either. I can appreciate the gospels for what they are: the perfect word of God transcribed by the hands of imperfect men.)

Thank you. I've seen your web site and read your article. Excellent work!

Thanks, Pen. Actually, I do like your answer since it's what I believe. But it's not about me liking the answer. It's about trying to learn the truth. I just wonder why EWB didn't concern himself with such an obvious contradiction.

Okay, here's something I don't get... EWB goes to great lengths to try and reconcile sections of the gospels where he sees a contradiction or inconsistency. But here's something that jumps out at me, and as far as I can tell EWB doesn't address it. Here are the four accounts of when they took Jesus away to be crucified...(all quotes from the NIV): Matthew 27:32 As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. Mark 15:21 A certain man from Cyrene, Simon, the father of Alexander and Rufus, was passing by on his way in from the country, and they forced him to carry the cross. Luke 23:26 As they led him away, they seized Simon from Cyrene, who was on his way in from the country, and put the cross on him and made him carry it behind Jesus. John 19:17 Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha). What's wrong with this picture? Am I the only one that sees a contradiction? This doesn't strike me as being a translation issue. The words are pretty clear.

In appendix 164 of his Companion Bible, EWB states that; "Mislead by tradition and the ignorance of Scripture on the part of medieval painters, it is the general belief that only two were crucified with the Lord. But Scripture does not say so." The explanation that follows doesn't hold water and is somewhat contrived in my view. Not to mention that it is inconsistent with what we are told by Matthew, Mark and Luke. Then, in appendix 160 he arrives at the dubious conclusion that there were six denials from Peter (as if it even mattered). A conclusion which is not only inconsistent with the narrative but contradicts what JC himself said, i.e., that Peter would deny him three times. (The business about a cock crewing twice is not problematic for me.) Where did EWB get his information from and why has he been largely unchallenged on it? Why would God have required us to essentially "re-divide the Word" in order to arrive at an understanding of the events as they occured?

Boy, you said it! She steadfastly clings to certain ideas like the Bible interprets itself, mathematical presicion, everything fits like a hand in a glove, etc. I don't know how true some of that is, so I don't push it. One "discussion" we had recently had to do with the accuracy of the four gospels. She says it is perfect: authored (breathed) by God and God is perfect, therefore the text must be perfect. I say it's authored by God, written by men, and the hands of men are not perfect. Even if it was recorded perfectly by divine inspiration, it's been translated many times and the originals are not available. Remember the "telephone" game when you were a kid? (I think that's what is was called.) Somebody whispers a simple message into the ear of the 1st person, who then whispers it into the ear of the 2nd person, etc. By the time the message comes out of the other end, it's mangled. The husband, she can and will do without. TWI's teachings, on the other hand... She knows about GS but considers many of you to be negative, angry and bitter. I send her threads from the forum that I think would enlighten her. She reads them but I don't know how much she absorbs. Thanks, Twinky. Our frienship is solid but I try not to badger her too much with my opinions. I'm trying to be as patient, kind and gentle as I can. :)

Sorry to revive a long-dead thread but I have a question... Initially, I was here to question Way doctrine. Then I discovered that many of the Way's teachings were derived, competently/correctly or not, from E.W. Bullinger. So I go and I read about Bullinger. And I start to read the Companion Bible. (Amazing document. I love it.) But how credible is this Bullinger guy? He makes some assertions that I question.

I can tell from reading the posts in this forum that there were many good people who were misled, to some degree or another, by the Way ministry. I don't judge them. As you said, most of the people who were (or still are) in TWI are nice people with great hearts for God. My friend's marriage is on the rocks and will probably end soon. Her husband is still in TWI and probably will be for life. Ironically, TWI probably kept them together for many years. He would often manipulate her with quotes from scripture (wives submit to your husbands, etc.) or condemn her if she threatened to leave (you'll lose your eternal rewards, etc.). Now that she's quit TWI she can step back and see how badly she was treated by both hubby and TWI.

Thank you, sir. I introduced myself briefly here...

...but I dated a girl a long time ago who was and recently we reconnected. Read the short version of the story here: Now I'm curious about the organization that she spent over 20 years of her life devoted to. (She quit TWI this year but still adheres to teachings by CFFM/STF/CES). Relevant facts about me: -- Born in the 1950s in New York. -- Raised Roman Catholic but was a non-believer for most of my adult life. -- Married, three kids, house in the 'burbs, etc. -- Got turned on to the Bible by my ex-Wayer friend and now I'm a believer. -- I do not buy into the "Idiom of Permssion" as way of explaining God's actions in the OT. -- I do not believe there were "six denials of Peter" or four crucified with Christ (and I wonder why anybody who can read would). That's all for now. P.S. I apologize if this thread is redundant. If there's a similar thread, please let me know.

Thanks, waysider. What's the special tonight?

Thank you, leafy. Having re-connected recently with an old friend who was in TWI for over 20 years, I've been lurking on these boards trying to get some insight into how that organization worked. I had no idea there were so many ex-Wayers (although I might have suspected it, given what my friend told me about how the ministry fell apart). And I had no idea how cult-like the TWI is. The stories I've read on these boards are horrible and disgusting. The two leaders I've read and heard about sound like despicable human beings and I don't know how anybody -- Christian or not -- could consider them to be real men of God. Anyway, what you said above is so true. My friend thought she could convert me, but it was a waste of time for either of us to try to persuade the other. I was just starting graduate school and I wasn't gonna leave -- no way, no how. She went off and married a TWI guy and now, many years later, she regrets it. She left TWI about a year ago but her husband stubbornly clings to it. They'll probably break up soon.

Hmm...interesting. That exact scenario played out in my life a long time ago. She wanted me to take the foundational class and I wouldn't (I was a non-practicing Catholic at the time and had no interest in religion). She went WOW and moved away so that was the end of our relationship. It's too bad, too. We both realize today that if she hadn't joined TWI, both of our lives would have been very different -- and probably better. Only now, many years later, does she see that she made a big mistake in her decision to move away from me, her family and her friends. P.S. I haven't read all of the posts in this thread yet. Also, I'm new to this forum.