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Of interest to anyone? I just read a statement* re: JESUS "being the perfect interpretation (my emphasis) of the Bible"; the author uses Mathew 5:17-20 to discuss how the Old Covenant law was simply "an incomplete revelation of God's heart", and how the Pharisees' unhealthy interpretations of Scripture were WRONG. Jesus, on the other hand, came to fulfill/complete the OT Covenant, AND to "show the very heart of God, and how He wants his People to live in His Kingdom". Thus JESUS "confronts the very unhealthy teachings and interpretations of the law in His day by the religious elite" and is the chief interpreter of Scripture, "because the law points to HIM" and His teaching (interpreting) ministry. This was new for me! I had heard a respected ex-twi leader declare "Ah, the Holy Spirit is the Interpreter of Scripture!" But never Jesus. But now that I think about it, since the Comforter is come to lead us into all truth, and since Jesus is still alive and well, and leading and guiding us in perfect harmony w/ the Holy Spirit, it makes perfect sense!!!!!! This expands the Red Thread concept beautifully, I think! And confronts vp's doctrinal, practical, and horribly Pharisaical teachings on several different levels!! *from Spark by EJ Martone (my Assembly of God pastor)

All I can say is WOW!!!!!!!!!!! Well also, HOW WONDEFUL IN MANY MANY WAYS!!!!!!!!!!! VERY BEST TO YOU AND YOURS UNTIL... WE ALL MEET AGAIN!!

Well, I was in Boston summer '82 only... But you might enjoy hearing names like Sue Watson, Michael Pulliam, and Michael, Uh oh, N?? Lost last name. Went into the 14th Corps... We all lived in the way home that Sue Watson coordinated...

Also checking into several resources in the Reddit link- Daniella Young's book, and a really good article! So appreciate these!

Thank you for articulating these things!!!

Oh, no doubt about it, there have been all KINDS of power etc abuses in just about EVERY denomination or Christian movement, especially those getting attention recently. Twi definitely did not have a special corner on that! However, the length of time vp was able to abuse young women sexually, keep it all a secret, influence twi culture in big ways, and NEVER be held accountable in any effectual way is notable IMO.

Appreciate your reply LOTS, Chockfull! Yes, observing and being a part of the various Christian assemblies functioning now often brings valuable freedom of choices, connections to the Body as a whole, ETCs as you pointed out! I left the Chris Geer group around 2009 after leaving twi in the late '80s, so didn't experience some of the specifics you mentioned. But What twi Became was so rooted in What It Already and Always Was that I am still pretty horrified that I was so influenced by vpw et all! Healthy horror I guess! Best to you!!

Picking up this thread after a looong search for the best thread pick up, hope I judged correctly enough! I am comparing the structure and teachings/inferences in the Assembly of God church I am now a partner in, w/ those of twi/vpw et al. The irony of vp lauding the early church model of church in the home, i.e a grassroots movement, and condemning later "organized" denominations that met in church buildings, really strikes me. (Especially in light of the current movement of many church-building-churches to emphasize small groups that meet in homes, as well as the large gatherings in the church building on Sunday.) He CLAIMED a decentralized free-flowing Spirit-led movemen t, whi ch it was in some key ways; but ALWAYS, he was to be honored as the Apostle Paul was, (claims to the contrary), and kept an iron grip on the power, money, psyches, and Biblical doctrines of twi. In CONTRAST, the Assembly of God folks (not that I have allegiance towards any particular denom), emphasize small groups, have a lead pastor VERY accountable to a local board, and have a central office somewhere in Indianapolis I assume, and I THINK a US headquarters? The Way Tree myth that elevated Jerusalem got implanted in my cultized brain, I am more fully realizing. The AOG church as a whole is structured much more like the 1st Century church in keyways, than twi ever was!!! Twi HEADQUARTERS WAS THE CHURCH BUILDING/physical location that ppl identified with and flocked to whenever possible, magnified 1000 times! Names like the Biblical Research Center, or WOW Auditorium didn't really change a THING IMO. Yes, human beings tend to ID with and attach to physical locations, especially where their hearts are drawn to God. But the concept that twi was the 1st Century church in the 20th, was PURE FICTION AND DECEPTION. (Sometimes I still long for the free flow of how twi grew, and I do love how the early church was apparently structured and flowed. Apparently the Gospel is moving beautifully in India with Sangat Bain's ministry which is based only on home churches, and has Zero Headquarters.) But right now, I am learning, growing, and worshipping in this local church which BTW, is connecting more and more w/ other churches in our town, YAY!) And am coming out of Cult Fog, and viewing the Evolution of The "Biblically-centered" Church from it's earliest days until now as something to learn from, honor, and feel a part of. Thank you GSC-ers for still being here!!

Will give it a listen, thanks!

Oh boy! Thank you for all of this Charity! And very interesting how movements evolve... We ALWAYS need to keep a watchful eye on human institutions, eh? I am now involved in an Assembly of God church pastored by a young fellow whose doctrinal positions I am coming alongside more and more. HowEVER, the doctrinal position I MOST appreciate there is that we can have a DIVERSITY OF DOCTRINAL POSITIONS (as well as political, ethnic, etc) re: secondary matters. Yes! Places for robust discussions, but no (ideally) place for narrow-mindedness, group think, conformity, etc. Sorry they are supporting Mike Bickle... Again, thank you for the input!!

LCM was a total puppet; evidence in VP & Me... Others things... I myself benefitted a lot from the way, but also suffered much personal destruction. I DO fantasize about joining the CA Jesus movement which I purposefully decided not to just b/c it seemed too charismatic; would have been MUCH MORE HEALTHY, DOCTRINALLY CORRECT I now believe, AND SAFE. Love John Wimber, Chuck Smith, the Vineyard movement. Oh well...

AMEN!!!!!!!!!