OldSkool
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I totally get it...Im still checking under there at times to this day...
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When all else fails....
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I'm sorry..I'm gonna do 100 hail-shontas right away...
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These are awesome, logical, straight forward, on-topic questions that will never be honestly answered by mike (which obviously you know - Im just auditioning for Cpt Obvious). I boldfaced the reasons why where I quoted you below to continue my obviousness.
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Not only is he admitting that he plagaiarized, did a mishmash rewrite and covered his imcompetency with bull-Shonta he also just admitted that wierwille did the same thing. What he have here is a failure to communicate...oh wait...right church wrong pew... What we actually have here, all bull-Shonta aside, is a classic case of parapraxis, aka Freudian Slip and with mike it likely also couples with his cognitive dissonance. There are several types of Freuduan slips but in this case we are seeing a classic case of Avoidance. Mike has to intentionally supresss the truth he knows regarding his idol (wierwille) because he simply doesn't want to deal with truth. Truth about wierwille - con-man, plaigairist, drunk, serial philanderer (im being nice) false prophet. He has to intentionally bury all of this information and rationalize it away, even admitting that it's true with his comparisions with wierwille to Biblical figures. Then you have all the bull-shonta from pflap that he holds near and dear that completely distorts his view on reality and so you see the cognitive dissonance. Now maybe the real person behind mikes profile has none of these issues and it's only the fake online troll persona that does. Who really knows. With that said, mike expects us to take him seriously on anything? Ok...Im off to my little sail boat. That sailboat lives in it's own little universe...where there is water under the water...or at least the Vermicelli Effect keeps the water at the bottom of the pot nice and hot while I cook my noodles for some stir fry...remember there is water at the bottom of the ocean...says prophet Byrne.
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- dark persuasion
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HaShanta!
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Hi Shonta! I just wanna know what happened to that poor little sail boat that was determinialistically acted upon by a series of events pre determined by the water under the water but that little sail boat turned out to have miniFW with the mitochlorians and the bull shonta was even stronger with this one....were all kinda like that little sail boat....except we CAN DECIDE TO GET OUT THE water because there is water at the bottom of the ocean. Lo Shonta!
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Great post and to pull a sentence, well here we go. I put forth that the doctrines on sonship rights, etc, coupled with the wierd practices lived out by those in TWI go a long ways to desensitize our conscience to things we should be sensitive to. TWI's definition of righteousness pretty much numbed my conscience out. I mean I put that junk into practice for drum roll....12 years, like T-bone. Was in TWI from 96 to 2008. Amazing how much damage can be done in such a relatively short time. However let me give a few examples of desensitizing that happened while I was around: - Dirty jokes told by the directors during any class having to do anything with sex - and I mean CRUDE jokes...guess that verse about coarse jesting didn't apply to the directors. - Common practices in the way household such as condoning casual sex because God would want you to get your need met. Literally my first fellowship coordinator counselled me with exactly that advice. - Cliches such as "loosen up"...Ive was told to loosen up quite a bit in my early years in TWI. Personally, by the time I enetered the way internatinal I had been quite the hound dog already and was done having one night stands and such. I mean it gets old..it's not fulfilling and people always get hurt. The way pushes licence to sin and then tells you not to feel anything about it as long as nobody's believing is affected. So as long as everyone can live undisturbed in fantasy land then everything is ok. Disclaimer: I understand that TWI put out a class called Living God's Word as a Family where they quoted scripture and rightfully stated that sex outside marriage is contrary to God's will. However, that is nowhere near enough to rectify all the damage that was done by VPW Craig and countless others who were whoring around every which way they could. Not to mention those practices are ingrained in TWI's various subcultures.
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Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And of course ole vicster had serial implications about him...serial philanderer, rapist...whatever else he did habitually, so naturally you have to rationalize your actions. Getting into the concept of sonship rights...where is that ever stated in scripture? Ive never seen it. We think of inalianable rights because the framers of our country imbedded the concept into our country's founding documents. But is the idea of sonship rights scriptural? I ask, and Im leaning towards they are not scriptural, but I ask to point out a corresponding attitude of entitlement that I noticed with people in the way international (and other name it and claim it outfits) where everything is already given, you have sonship rights, now go claim what God already gave you. I feel the corresponding attitude of entitlement is also based in pride and especially the law of believing type of pride where everything you have is a result of one's awesome believing. What I do see in scripture is God resists the proud. The meek shall inherit the earth. Jesus Christ was meek and lowly in heart. Nowhere ever have I seen in the gospels Jesus telling his disciples to go demand whats yours from God. We are told to ask, we are told to be meek and patient. We should approach God with an attitude of love, respect, meekness, thankfulness, etc.
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I love the section of scripture you include on conscience. Honestly, I had never considered them in this light or really gave too much thought to the fact that wierwille had a seared conscience and sets the stage for other's to follow him into his insanity. I mean, why tell someone that "sin conscience" is a bad thing? When we sin, shouldn't we be conscience of it? Whether a brother tells our fault or we figure it out on our through holy spirit conviction we get to the place of confessing the sin as told to do in scripture but that doesn't happen without conscience. That's also an interesting tie-in on sanctification. Not only does wierwille alter definitions to suit his purposes he also alters related concepts to support his definitions. Case in point: From The Bible Tells Me So Ch. 8 - You are Righteous Now: Now - before I begin let me say that I understand that there is a difference in righteousness given a quality of the new creation we receive at the new birth. So, confessing sins won't necesarily do much until one confesses Jesus as Lord...I get that. However, in this case we are taling about CHRISTIANS - by VPW's own words. I John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. Wierwille says that confessing sins do not make a person righteous and scripture says that confessing sins CLEANSES us from all unrighteousness. So obviously in our walk we can be most unrighteous to the point that we have to be cleansed from unrighteousness. So why teach contradictory information...and why contradict the Bible. Before someone comes in and says it's all figurative, Im saying right now that it is not. This is a practical section of scripture and is practical to our walk. Nothing figurative about confessing sins and being cleansed form all unrighteousness. I think that wierwilles' theology is actually moving healthy boundaries that God set in place in our relationship with him as his children. I mean if I sin against my parents in some egregious way, say I get drunk and wreck my dads car by driving it through his fenced in yard....wouldnt it be proper to apologize and make amends? But when it comes to God...according to wierwille we shoudn't feel anything when we sin. That's dangerous and it moves a huge landmark that I feel set the stage for trips to the motor coach...but I digress once again.
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Gotta say your experiences are interesting considering the timing of the loyalty oath, what happened in NYC/State during that time, the fact that community service was a foreign concept, etc. It add a lot of insight because they were willing to consider community service as a viable in-road into the community but when it was your idea it wasnt a good idea any longer. Is that from leadership feeling outshined? By the time I came along in 96 any form of community service was expressely frowned upon unless you were using those avenues to sell classes. Also, along these lines and on a personal note. I feel that service in the community is vital for a Christian. So on a side note, I enrolled my teenage son in a private school starting in 2021. It's not a religous school it's a Waldorf School. Waldorf is an educational style that, for my son at least, has been far more effective as an educational method with it's non-lecture/test model; though lecture/test is a part of the systesm...anywho. The students are required to contribute 25 hours per year of community service. It can be anything beneficial, so there are no requisites on where to give, only that no monetary compensation occurs. It's really fun figuring out how and where to give. He is going to work at my wife's job next Tuesday before thanksgiving serving at her Thanksgiving work party. Well, my wife works healthcare and administrates an adult day care for the mentally handicapped. Most of these guys are wards of the state and pretty low functioning and its a HUGE deal to interact with them, especially for something like Thanksgiving Dinner. Of course I take the time to talk over scripture, giving, service, etc. It has a certain sense of satisfatcion to have my son on a better trajectory than I was and also taking the Christian walk out of wonderland. The way international has this pretend spiritual arena they live in and their own seperate sub-culture and totally adversarial to society. Christ did not conduct himself that way in the gospels...so yeah.
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I wonder if that's processed at my local Smithfielf plant or Tyson?
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A sailboat is an inanimate object incapable of any sort of will, free or otherwise. You make this stuff up as you go? You know what makes a sailboat move? Something else exerts some sort of force on the boat in such a way that it causes movement. No choice of the sailboat involved...it;s an INAMINATE object.
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Yes! That is the modus operandi of these yokels. The way they treated you in this regard is correct in your perception of the way it way. Was I there? Nope. However, I have seen this pattern repeated in any branch I was ever involved in and there were plenty of those. Here is a prime example: Was living in VA Beach and a cat 1 hurrican rolled through. Was in the house for 2 solid days with screaming wind, no power, all the glory you would expect from such a storm. Well -- After the storm passed I went to work. I was framing housed back then and was working right on the ocean front. Went to the job and my boss was there with the rest of the crew. He started picking up downed limbs and we all followed. I spent around 4 hours just giving to the community. Well, when I got home I was reproved by me fellowship coordinator (lived with them obviously) for not keeping the household first. Yep...something that benevelont and simple was judged wrong by my fellowship coordinator. The only interation we really had with the community was talking down to them to get them to take a class or something....
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I agree with Rocky that it wasn't all bad...if it were who would ever take the bait? Now, that's not to say (and I know Rocky didn't mean this either) that we need PFLAP because there is some good in it...not at all...a little leaven...yeah the entire thing is corrupt. But is it all bad, or even all untrue? Nope...there are many things there that are true, but the corruption causes the entire work to be worthless.
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First off, cool post I enjoyed the definitions and perspective. I zereod in on this point though because I think it speaks volumes both in the sense of what TWI teaches people not to do verses the right thing to do based on being righteous. TWI - they frowned (as we all know) heavily on getting involved in our communities calling that sort of involvement "designer causes" and so on. I think what you are doing is a solid way to go. Get involved! Pursue righteous causes, pursue justice - love it! Live rightly and do it in such a manner that is of true service and expresses God's love to our fellow man. TWI had us out selling classes. What better way to love our neighbor as ourself than to be involved on this level you mentioned Rocky! Thanks.
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I just posted a new topic to discuss this very thing...
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Hello everyone. Been thinking a lot lately about righteousness and wierwille's definition. From The Bible Tells Me So: You are Righteous Now: Is that what righteousness really is? The just shall live by faith. Where in scripture does it ever indicate that we can stand in the presence of God (as if wierwille stood in the presence of God) without any consciousness of sin? Biblically righteousness is a state that was granted to us by our identification with Jesus Christ. It's embodied in the spirit of sonship we receive at the new birth and we are told to walk after the spirit and not after the flesh...but guess what..we all sin...we all relapse back into sinful ways, we even commit a multitude of sins without knowing we are sinning at times. It's the walk of a child of God, the walk of an individual with two natures that are in constant conflict. So what does that have to do with how I feel?...welll... 1 John 3:19-21 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. One of TWO possibilites are listed here...either our heart condemns us or it doesn't and if it doesn't we have confidence towards God...what I see here is an almost child like innocence of the child of God and his relationship with his Father. This spirit of sonship also convicts us of sin, and Jesus said it would do just that. I can personally say that at times I am very convicted of sin and wrongdoing and that feeling of conviction leads me to confession and repentance...so what happened to st vic? Where did he lead us? 1 Timothy 4:1,2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron Ephesians 4:17-20 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; Here's what I think from a lot of consideration on this topic over the years....so let's start putting my ideas once again to the Grease Spot Pinyata of Doctrinal...let's bang some holes here.. Personally I think, based on my limited understanding of scripture, that righteousness is a state given at the new birth and in order for us to walk righteously we put off the old man and put on the new man. Ill refrain from more scripture quotes at the moment but this concept repeats all throughout the Church epistles. (I am no longer a dispensatinalist and no longer ignore the gospels as not addressed to me. It's the Church epistles that reveal what was hidden in God - a new creation in Christ that Christ will to bring to full fruition in the future when he hands the subjugated kingdom back to God - but that work of the new creation is well underway and it's Christ that is leading the efforts as the head of his body) It has nothing to do with how we feel, but we shoud pay close attention to how we feel because the spirit within may very well convict us of sin so we can put it off and walk in newness of life. I think victor paul wierwille's conscience was seared with a hot iron. I believe he was past feeling, and I can understand that fully because it happened to me when I was drunk all the time. Just numbed out and washed up. It's an awful state. I have no desire to sit here and beat on the memory of wierwille, however, it's his example we were given to follow. So, naturally, I was taught to ignore how I feel to the detriment of my own mental/emotional well being. Feelings come and go but the Word of God....yeah...clear as mud no? Let's rumble...
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No u didn't. Your posts prove that. You really do not have a clear picture of yourself and the things affecting you. A little leaven leaveneth the entire lump. Your in denial.
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It's refreshing to see you agree with someone besides yourself... So basically you have a theory that u like and everything else must fit into that theory...wierwillian practices 101. You really don't see how bad twi thinking is crippling your critical thinking skills or lack thereof.
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Holy sheep-shonta...it's the law of bullshonta in full effect! Whoa.
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Whoa...I posted that twice so it's established....
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Well likely just different types of shonta...
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Well likely just different types of shonta...
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Why on earth are you so judgemental of young people. I ran a young adult fellowship at HQ for several years and have always had a natural inclination to raising up youthful men and women into adults. Your really showing your fangs here. First off you can't bs Young people...they're tired of it and they are likely calling bullshonta on your pseudo-neuroscience bullshonta. If u can muster the courage, which I doubt, to be honest and forthright then u may just find they are frustrated trying to find their way through life and they are sick of condescending old people and their disrespectful attitudes. You aren't the type to gain their respect and get in the trenches and get in their level...which is probably a higher level than your level...but if you could you would find hungry minds and a youthful zeal that just needs some love and empathy. With your attitude you aren't worthy of their respect.
