OldSkool

Thats an interesting article. Definately enjoyed the read. Thanks!

Do you make this stuff up as you go? As Chock noted...how does one close fellowship with the adversary? How do you know what the adversary knows...so just how does the adversary posess a mans mind and muscles with this detailed information? What biological protections did God build into our DNA against posession? So it sounds like youve hacked our genetic code to undestand how this works? oh wait.....now that ive asked for specifics...dont say it was all figurative...just admit you dont know.

Really good points. ... and yeah, the TWI version makes no sense.

Yeah...Branham is was full of bullshonta..no doubt. VPW did teach the original sin was masturbation and Craiggers followed up with Eve having a lesbian relationship with the devil...however that works...no fruit produced...I think craig was just miffed over his exwifes lesbian relaionship with rosalie...I digress... According to vpw and craig the unforgiveable sin was running Romans 10:9 in reverse as Chockfull noted......wierwille and martindale both likely gleaned what suited their purposes from Branham; plus Branham was a charismatic pentecostal type which certainly seemed to appeal to wierwille/craiggers. TWI has quieted down on all that seed of the serpent stuff...as well as the first sin of mankind....I don't think they really want this material out there the way wierwille and craig used it as a sideshow attraction for advanced class specials and all. Part of their whitewashing efforts to appear legitimate.

Really? How does that work when what God was planning was a mystery that God kept to himself until Jesus Christ revealed it. 1 Corinthians 2:7,8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Definately major differences too, as well as similarities, as you noted. With wierwille, considering he sort of gleaned what he could from whatever source tickled his fancy and/or sought after (and found) material he knew would appeal to his audience, all the time saying God just gave him the information by revelation....with Branham it's likely wierwille took what he liked, reworded it somewhat to seperate it from the source...that's my speculation anyway. What other sources have you come across on seed of the serpent? Ive searched around and havent found very much, which is why this Branham guy was significant to me in my search to figure out where this seed of the serpent doctrine originated. In Genesis God does acknowledge the fact that Satan would have a seed...but....what the actual heck does that really mean. Ive read all sorts of information on the topic. Lot of people take it back to Edomites, or Idumeans as they were known in Greek. I also think this point of view could have real merit as well, especially considering all the other figurative languange in Genesis...and maybe that's my error...trying to read a literal seed into a section of scripture that likely never contained a literal garden or literal trees in said garden. To be clear too, my searches have been mostly limited to the term seed of serpent or variations that are similar. Accordingly I havent come across anything as blatant in termininology as Branham used and wierwille likely copied. Im going to spend some time later this morning on the internet and see what else I can come across.

I'll check it out...thanks for digging in...I literally found the link I posted to begin with but haven't dived in just yet...cool.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Branhamism.html

I think you just got to the chewy caramel center...wierwille considered himself next to God and tried to function as the head of the Body of Christ, making him a thief and robber because he tried to enter in some other way. I had never really made that connection but now that you mention it. I wasn't around wierwille and came along late in the game, 1996. So, I just concluded that the way international was set there to take Christ's place. But now I see the progession more clearly: Wierwille wanted to be God's right hand man and certainly billed himself that way. Martindale wanted to take Wierwille's place as God's right hand man Subsequent leadership - Rosalie rivenbark -- under counsel from their attorneys decided to do away with the central, charismatic leader because it's one of the earmarks of an abusive cult....so she called it Gawd's minustree...thereby sealing that little cornfield based, 501-c3 non-profit as God's ministry of deliverance and concealing herself as the wogfodat...which she never claimed outright...but yeah....but to them TWI and the BOD are the head of the body... I mean they do placements every year where they pretend they are placing members in the body of Christ...sad really....Thanks for bringing this into focus for me, I really appreciate it!

I am so happy read this!!!!!! Your welcome, Im just glad that I was able to help a little and very awesome to hear you are able to start putting TWI in the rearview. More importantly, you are on strong footing in your faith because it's on the Rock - Christ Jesus!!

Well...I think I stumbled on the source for wierwille's infatuation with the seed of the serpent...and also Martindale claiming Eve had sex with the devil. https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2009/05/09/william-branham-false-prophet-2/ Branham preached the ‘Serpent Seed’ teaching: The Serpent Seed teaching is a belief that Cain was produced through sexual intercourse between Eve and the serpent in the garden. The curse of the Serpent’s Seed he believed is the cause of all mankind’s problems and women are to blame and it is evident in their temptation of men. –William M. Branham, My Life Story, p. 19. Branham also believe that the Serpent Seed was the missing link between man and monkey. Hitler also believed in the Serpent Seed teaching and this was the main reason why Jews needed to be eliminated, for the Jewish nation was of Satan. Now if Hitler believed in this and Branham believed in this, and Hitler was of Satan and Branham is of God then….we have a HUGE problem here. It is also noted that Branham despised women and on one occasion stated, “But I remember when my father’s still up there running, I had to be out there with water and stuff, see young ladies that wasn’t over seventeen, eighteen years, up there with a man my age now, drunk. And they’d have to sober them up and give them black coffee, to get them home to cook their husband’s supper. Oh, something like that, I said, ‘I…This was my remarked [sic] then, THEY’RE NOT WORTH A GOOD CLEAN BULLET TO KILL THEM WITH IT.’ That’s right. And I hated women. That’s right. And I just have to watch every move now, to keep from still thinking the same thing.” –M. Branham, ‘My Life Story’ (Spoken Word Publications, undated), p.27. So now we can see why he was so adamant to preach this Serpent Seed teaching for he had an immense animosity towards women. This would also explain why he preached a rigid ‘moral code’ for women with regards to dressing, hair etc, etc. Branham also had a ‘revelation’ that allowed for divorce. –All Things Are Possible, p.162. The bible says in Genesis 4 v 11; 1 “And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.” …. not from the Serpent/Satan.

Thanks T-Bone! I had never really considered this at all. Much appreciated.

Thanks, and yes.

Just ignore the chapter break for continuity. Romans: Romans shows the need for a savior and concludes all of mankind under dominion of sin. The book starts out with sins people commit, both gentile and Israel. It concludes that even though Israel had Mosiac law they could never live up to it. So the just shall live by faith. The book then moves into what Charles Welsch called an inner section, and I can agree with him. That innersection goes straight into the sin nature itself, the corruption inherrent in all people. Its in chapter 7 that the sin nature is laid bare, fully exposed. No matter how much desire a person had to serve the law of God, no matter how well they knew the law, the sin nature that dwells in the flesh produced evil and it was the law itself that exposed the evil, thus the law of sin and death. So chapter 8 moves into God's solution to the problem. And it slowly winds out of the innter section back into a doctrinal section by the time we get to chaper 12. Enjoy.

Thats funny! When I was in-rez out a Gunnison one of my good friends was sitting in the back of the auditorium when we were at a live STS that the campus coordinator taught. Well, Rodney fell asleep in the back where he was seated but they broadcast the service over the campus and he was dead on the camera. He was literally the laughing stock for a while and all of could relate cause we all dozed off from time to time. His brother was on staff at the time and the best part was hearing his brother roast him as only a brother can.

Absolutely. Keep in mind Im taking nothing away from scripture, I mean it's God's Word that he magnified above his name and scripture is VITAL. But do consider that many Biblical scholars estimate that it's only been about 6000 or so years since Adam. Whether or not thats true is debatable, so I get that and am not trying to introduce a debate but am just making a point. For arguments sake, let's say it has been 6000 years. Well, that leaves only about 567 years since 1455 when the first printed Bible was pressed. So thats around 5433 years where there was no Bible. Yes - scripture was recorded on stone tablets, scrolls, papyrus, on through the ages. There's also the stars, which I do not understand, theres prophets, etc. But for wierwille to say the word the word and nothing but the word...the man was either ignorant of history, which is likely, and/or he was pushing his agenda that what he said = the word.

Back up a verse: 12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Renewing one's mind isnt necessarily what TWI says it is. Renewing my mind can be as simple as putting off lying: Im extra carefult to speak the truth. When I mess up and lie, we all do, I confess the sin. I no longer elevate the Church Epistles to the detriment of the rest of scripture. However, it's in the Church epistles where our true, new selves are exposed. It's like looking into a mirror: On one side you have that old nasy nature that's enmity against God, the other you have the new nature thats literally a new creation, thereby giving us a choice to not follow the old ways. The conflict within a person is listed in Romans 7 and Romans 8 given as the other option.

I agree that working scripture is a good thing to do, hands down. However, TWI placed study on a pedestal that doesn't fit. That we have a bible is cool, never been easier to study and we should do so as we determine. However, consider how powerfully they walked in the book of Acts...guess what? They didnt have Bibles. Most of them used the Apocryphia for what we know as the Old Testament, including Jesus Christ. Scripture was on scrolls, papyrus, etc..and kept in the temple or Synagogues. The public really didn't have access unless you were wealthy enough to afford your own set, or went to the Synagogue or Temple. Wierwille made Christianity into an intellectual pursuit, while the Bible clearly states that knowledge puffeth up. Love trumps it all. Love God with your whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neghbor as yourself. Love trumps doctrine any day of the week and God isn't bound by our knowledge, or lack of knowledge of scripture. They walked the way they did in the first century because Christianity is relationship based. God is our Father, Christ is our Lord and head. That simple.

Well, not to give a pat answer, but how God works in our lives is as unique as we are individually. At times God has spoken to me through other people as they stated things about my life that I had never told them or anyone else for that matter and then spoke to my heart the way only God would know to inspire in them. Ive had visions before that were very vivid. For me, most times it's a peaceful "knowing" that this is the way, walk ye in it. However, here's the best advice I could ever give anyone on the subject. Have faith/trust in God that if he needs to work in you for whatever reason he will know just how to get your attention. Go ahead and toss all the garbage TWI has on the subject, they are clueless for the most part. That crap about speaking in tongues strengthens your inner man like spiritual weight lifting so you are built up enough to receive revelation...all trash. How on earth can God give something that is given the same measure to us all and then we need to build it up before it works...makes no sense. If God needs you to do something he will get your attention and he will do it in a way that's understood by you.

TWI has it wrong once again. Fruit of the Spirit are characteristics of the new nature, just as the works of the flesh are contrasted against fruit of the spirit.

Ahhhh! Mogashoniay lmaka eleevetay!

Its really interesting to consider WHY wierwille wanted people to be loyal to him. Im sure money was at the root of his demand for loyalty...I mean...wouldnt want those dollars escaping his grasp... A short time ago, 2021 somewhere, I prayed and meditated several time about joining a church, possibly taking in a few sessions up at CFF, or perhaps starting my own thing....at the end of that time of meditation I realized that the book of Acts shows us Jesus was vitally involved in their lives on an individual level. So...I prayed and basically told the Lord that I didnt want anything with my name on it, or a 501-c3 chartered in my name...I told him that I would do whatever he needed but I wouldn't lead anyone to myself, but instead I would point the way to Jesus Christ. Ive been really at peace ever since. So, I really dont get the whole loyalty thing...loyalty to wierwille, loyalty to craig...who needs these bozos.

Again - nobody is concerned, against, or in opposition to anything. Because you use synonyms doesn't negate the logic fallacy. Disagreement doesn't really have to carry any of these elements. I just simply disagree with no emotional attachement at all.

I read all of you post...but honestly...nothing you say after this sentence is worth reading. Why? Because you set up a straw man and address it as if it's real. Nobody here is upset over anything. If anything you are projecting your upsettedness out onto others who dare challenge wierwille. But seriously...why set up a logic fallacy straight out the gate? Then you lurk for several days only to come back with the same bullshonta, except you try the strawman approach? Yeah...hows that working out.