OldSkool

Thats some really good perspective and it jarred my memory...back in 1999 on my apprentice year of my corps training I was of course at HQ. A close friend of mine had kids and lived in the unit park. My friend's daughter was in high school at the time and she filled me in quite a few things I was naive about. Mainly how rampant drugs and alcohol was amongst the staff kids and how promiscous teenaged staff kids tended to be amongst themselves really. Knowing teenagers Im sure this is still an issue, I mean really it just refutes the way internationals's own stupid boundaries that they are somehow set apart from the "world". Anywho...staff kids have it tough and you are correct, the directors kids are twice cursed.

Im thinking its an almagam of both.

Wow....just wow....talk about an actual WTF...I wonder if Craig and the way will start fighting in court now that hes using their copyrighted material....hold up...lemme get my popcorn..but...it speaks volumes that martindale's youtube channel has 164 followers...

Thanks for answering in detail, I appreciate your perspective for certain....It makes me wonder if the locals knew his reputation as a sexual predator and alcoholic, amongst other things and that was the reason for this great divide between the way international and local communities back when wierwille walked the earth....When I left in 2008 the way international had developed some pretty solid relationships amongst the community, of course this all centered around commerce...rarely did any townies come to the auditorium except for the Harvest Concerts that happened in November and we would invite folks in to enjoy the concert. Some town folks would come see what the fuss was all about and it wasnt that bad of a turnout considering the concerts didnt change much from year to year. So from my perspective, the relationships were strained more so when wierwille and martindale were running the show. Rosalie had us work on public relations locally, not to actually help anyone from the local area, but to lose the reputation of an isolated cult compound.....which it is...anywho...Thanks again!!!

Penworks, can you explain wht the relationship between the way international and local towns such as New Knoxville? I always caught bits and pieces of various points of contention, both from the size of the ROA and basic pettiness. Don't know how much you had to deal with back in the day. When I came to HQ in 1999 we were told basically, in so many words, not to interact with locals. In retrospect I wonder what that was all about? Wierwille's reputation? anywho. Thanks for considering.

That merging action was actually initiated by Constantine in the third century and his actions to develop a paganized version of Christianity set the scene for eventual emergance of the Roman Catholic Church. Rome shifted from persecuting Christians to paganizing Christians beliefs/practices in order to make Christianity palatable to Romans for political purposes. So, should the verses in question have been added or altered for those reasons, history is certainly supportive. I still feel there is a smallish chance that if the verses were actually added as forgeries, that Pharisees could have been the unseen hand in this case. They are cited in scripture as coming up with all kinds of schemes to hide Christ from the masses including but not limited to bribing the Romans to say that Jesus didnt rise but his disciples stole away his body in secret. So, with Christ taking his last breath it's somehwhat plausible that everyone in Judea knew or had hear of some version of what happened, such as the temple veil being ripped from top to bottom.. So, to say something totally false and unbelievable or even ridicoulous would serve to discredit the first century Church...totally my speculation, totally my opinion, Im just saying...perhaps..

Perhaps the verses were added/inserted into scriptural narrative to discredit the event surrounding Christ's death. There were certainly enough Pharisees around at the time to pull that one off. In the epistles we frequently read of false brethren and such...

Thats the million dollar question...had it actually occured I feel it wouldve been mentioned in other places...

Hi Mark, I may be reading ambiguity into your post that isnt there...do you feel that the verses in question are true? And if so why...not trying to pick a fight either...Im on board with the GMIR article that Mike posted by Daniel L. McConaughy, however, I am interested in considering reasons why the verses may also be accurate...thanks!

Its interesting to consider these points because it's histrorically accurate to say that almost as soon as an authentic epistle from the Apostles was circulated it was also rewritten. Paul addresses this in part with everybody has a psalm and everybody has a doctrice. So there's the point that WordWolf makes that I do agree with. And to add to the equation there are people who purposefully rewrite and change scripture to further satans designs to obscure the gospel. Romans 1:18 - AV1611 For the wrath of God is reueiled from heauen against all vngodlinesse, and vnrighteousnesse of men, who hold the trueth in vnrighteousnesse. Hold can also be stated as supress. So there are those who purposfully supress scripture as well. It's accomplished in many baby steps...boil the frog slowly as they say...for example there are: - deletions - insertions - changed pronouns - changed nouns - confused and inaccurate Koine Greek definitions that give a false sense of whats actually written - There's books that should be included in the Bible that aren't that are hidden amongst the garbage texts that WordWolf mentioned. Book of Jubilees, Jasher, and 1 Enoch come to mind. I cite them since they are all heavily quoted in scripture or cross referenced in scripture. Jude directly quotes the first chapter of The Book of Enoch verbatim and the phrase Son of Man used by Jesus Christ himself is from Enoch. Jubilees and Jasher are also cross referenced in the Old Testament...yet they are stashed amongst the so called Pseudepigrapha, or falsely attributed works. - Altered concepts that do not mean what scripture actually teaches but are altered to suit someone's specific agenda and/or narrative. I could continue but figured this is enough for you guys to start poking holes in my Pinata, as I expect and desire. Peace!

Dude...that could be the sixth way corps principle....sure beats believe abundantly to live on a genuine need basis...and all that jazz..

No just a lame attempt at humor...

Fair enough, and thanks, and Ive certainly derailed a ton of threads my self so not trying to point fingers with three pointing back at me. Ill post later today after work.

Not directed specifically at anyone, but I actually thought we were gonna have an intelligint discussion based on GMIR and the topic at hand. Is this all GSC is anymore?

1996-2008

Im inclined to agree with the article for the following reasons: 1) There is no other reference to an otherwise significant event, had it occured. 2) The concept does not fit from the point of view that Jesus Christ is the first fruits to rise from the dead. Jesus Christ is pre-eminant in all things because that's the way God ordained it. 3) While there are clear records in scripture of Jesus, et. al. raising people from the dead who died prematurely, there are three distinct events where the dead shall be made alive a) Gathering together, b) resurection of the just, c) resurection of the unjust. 4) What happened to them after they supposedly rose? They go back and die again? (Illustrating common sense that doesnt fit with the narrative presented in scripture.) 5) Church history, Fathers, and writings as quoted in the GMIR article are all incongruent. Such a significant event surely would not be contradictory from a historical perspective. One thing I will note though, the oldest manuscripts are not the best manuscripts. If one manuscript, or text as the case may be, omits a verse that in itself should cause alarm on account of the omission which leads to the question why was it omitted? In this case perhaps the omission is valid. However, as a rule of thumb, oldest does not equal better. The Westcott/Hort greek text was supposedly older and supposedly more authoritative due to it's age. But God appearantly did not choose one text to rule them all, but many texts in agreement to safeguard what was written. I leave you guys with tables showing deletions and omissions by Westcott and Hort texts (Codex Vaticanus, and Codex Sinaticus) from the Textus receptus or Received Texts. Westcott and Hort utilized Alexandrian texts whereas theTextus Receptus is from the Byzantine line of texts. The Textus Receptus agrees with the majority of the 5000 odd texts in existance today. Alexandria was a hotbed of Gnostiscism, where the Byzantine texts trace to Antioch of Syria and ultimately the first century Church who were careful to steward the scriptures they received. https://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/themagicmarker.html

Hi! Welcome to GSC...guess Im a bit slow on the draw to see your thread, so here is a very warm, yet belated welcome!!

Thanks for your troubles Mike.

Thanks Mike....I can read it on fine zoomed in....when you get a chance can you post the rest of the article? Personally, of the old way magazines, GMIR was one of the best contributions.

We are not, and never have been, in a spriritual competition. Error.

But wait...I thought it was the spiritual competition...?

It doesnt work that way Mike....we take ourselves up to what scripture says to live God's ways not wrest scriptures to support your opinion....but hey...your fader in da verd did the same...so have fun..

See ya here, there, or in the air....oops...I mean Godspeed, sir!!

Ima be leaving now