OldSkool

This lunacy isnt new. Jesus Christ day it was the tradition of men, or the tradition of the elders that came from the very unscriptural Babylonian Talmud. Then there were layers of explanations that were passes orally that were just as wrong but treated on par with scripture. The oral traditions were set in place to give a certain intrepretation of scripture that was against actual scripture. Same with wierwille. He was never needed. Mike - you hold the traditions of wierwille above God's Word. They are not God breathed. Some of it's stolen goods and Jesus Christ does not employ thieves or predators in his service. wierwilles works are loaded with rudimentary error. Again -- nothing new to see here. There has never been damage done to scripture, God has made sure it is in tact...no wierwille needed to give his faulty explanation. When people misintrepret scripture, change it like wierwille did in his literals according to usage, or rewrite it like some modern versions, misintrepret a word or two here or there...none of that damages scripture. We are told to study to show ourselves approved! We are told that we need no man to teach us because we have an annointint from the Father and that annointing teaches us all things. We dont need wierwille to teach us anything. His legacy is unfaithful and untrustworthy to this day. My goodness...do have any actual faith in God to keep his own word in tact? How ridicooulous is the claim that scripture was lost or damaged and it took wierwille to piece it all back together by plagairaising others works that were also in error in many places...sheer lunacy. Look at the fruit of wierwille - damaged lives, young women used sexually by clergy and wierwille himself, drunkeness (- its well known he had Drambuie in his night owl coffee cups...Im an alcoholic mike...thats alcoholism...we dont all drink the same but alcoholics are alcoholics...), living lavisahly off donations that were not given to enrich the trustees but thats exactly what was happening, he was mean --his wife said that about him after he passed, he bullied people and ruined their lives cause of some whim he had at the moment..I mean where do I stop? The mans was actions point to lawless corruption and by all RELAIBLE accounts he went to the grave that way. But you wanna tell people that God needed him to repair scripture that had been damaged? I think God has better sense to employ someone to the task that has 0 actual education in mastering Koine Greek...he got his doctorate from a degree mill...why would God use a cheap knock off to supposedly repair his word? His word has never been damaged...you lay folly at Gods feet and call God a liar because scripture cannot be broken. Come out of the delusion mike. I did and the air is great.

Oh...so if top leadership had listened to the teaching and mastered the material vpw referenced them the minustree never would have fell into ruins at the hands of the disobedient way corps..that's why it's significant to you. It's romanticized in your mind..carries some nostalgia and it's where you allow vpw off the hook for having a fake ministry that was geared to selling classes from the beginning. You know what the way ministry is geared towards today? Selling classes.

Unless you were participating in ministry programs that demand you not change your marital status...then you just get your need met any ole way you can. That was rampant when I was in-rez.

yay CRS

Oh, snap! I get it now, thats a great show...didnt realize that was the same show that I watched a couple seasons of....anyone else have senior moments?

Theres so many uhh....adult movie stars with that same last name...must be a coincidence...

If I were you I would stop and start with scripture. Unless you are trying to canonize wierwille I would leave the idea all together. If his works are true they will stand, if not they wont.

Yes! They always are!!! Its so cool.

Thanks Mike! Im thankful we have connected as well. We may bicker or disagree or whatever but love rules the day...over any difference we are united by the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Much love and peace, sir!

Well, let's talk about me for a minute. Im thinking it would be easy to read a "position of moral authority" into my posts and musings here on GSC where I seem to be jeering at wierwille and accusing him of folly and not really looking at that pile of rubbish in my own backyard...well...lets talk about OldSkools problems for a minute before we get to the solution. Mike - I am a chronic alcoholic who has been sober for several years now. Im literally the worst person when Im drinking. I lost everything to alcoholism...and nearly comitted suicide in 2017 because I hated myself on a level that I still cant put into words adaquetly. When I was drinking I lived in bars, I left my wife, I was a womanizer, was doing cocaine like it was creamer in my coffee...and all of this after I left TWI and after I had a knowledge of scripture, whether that knowledge be good bad or indifferent. If you were to look back on my life from where I am now you would see a person who was mean spirited, a trained fighter, and extremely violent. You would find an occultist who had both hands in the devils bag of tricks. You would find a liar, alcoholic, and druggie who would be just as likely to buy a person a shot of Tequila and turn around and fight them half hour later. I was awful. The pits. I literally have not one shred of justification left to assume any moral superiority or high ground ever. I was among the worst of the worst. It wasnt the way international that saved me mike. It wasnt wierwille or his doctrines...he gets no credit. It was Jesus Christ. Not only did he sacrifice himself for our sins but he is here every step of the way, and nobody is able to pluck us from his hands. When I was drinking myself into oblivion I kept getting a vision of waves crashing onto a very rocky shoreline over and over. I eventually came to understand that I would remain caught in those waves drowning in alcohol and hurting myself and my loved ones over and over again as I crashed onto that rocky shoreline. Well...I eventually reached rock bottom where I knew death was just around the corner from me and it was zeroing in on what little life I had left. I repented. I have literally emptied myself of all pride, sin(s), anything I have ever tried to hide from God and Christ..I have asked for and received forgiveness. I have spent several years now making amends to the ones I hurt. I have apologized in writing to my former wife and am actively doing all I can to make her life better. I have confessed my short comings to my 16 year old son and have been very open and honest with him on everything. Even things most parents would shelter their kids...well I wont shelter him because he doesnt need to get caught in the same generational problems my family carries. I have come clean with my current wife. She literally saved my life by her stand for the Lord Jesus Christ. Her words and confrontation to me when I was drunk are the reason I am alive today...those words still echo in my head "Surrender yourself to Christ...stop fighting and submit" -- thats literally what she told me and I have. Today, I am giving her the best life I can give her. There is nothing left to hide. Anyone that knows me will tell you that I am open and honest on my sins, my lifestyle, and my humbleness of heart to serve the Lord. I am actively working with others including the homeless and other alcoholics/drug addicts. No Im not in AA either, not that I have anything against them beause I don't. I am very active in ministering and there is nothing that points to me as some great one...I will only point the way to Christ because I am redeemed scum of the earth. I dont deserve the breath I am breathing, but I fully understand that every breath I take is a gift of life from our Creator and I have never been more thankful. So, when it comes to me Mike..I am literally a man who is breathing fresh air for the first time ever. I am as open and honest as I can be before God and man...and when there is anything I need to change I will change. The Lord is very active in my life and he chastises me as well as leads me to greener pastures. Hes is my Lord and I am in service to Jesus Christ because it was him who died for me, it was Christ who saved me, it is Christ who strengthens me, succors me, and causes me to be victorious over sin as long as I stay open and honest and continue to push into the new nature and reckon the old as deceased. That is the essence of Christianity -- release from the corrupted sin nature into the glorious new nature of the last Adam - Jesus Christ! Let me be clear - wierwille never did any of those things for me and he is a cheap conterfeit. Im not trying to be insulting to you or mean. Im just being honest and giving an honest account as someone who stands for and actively fellowships with God and Jesus Christ. So, I have no condemnation for wierwille on a personal level. I speak against his works and legacy and his faulty example he left for all of us. He is accountable to Jesus Christ as his servant and I do not think I am worthy to judge the motives of his heart no more than anyone would be qualified to judge the motives of my heart..but the fruit of my life tells a story and the fruit of wierwilles life tells a story and we are know by our fruits. Mike - there is nothing on this earth I desire more than making Jesus Christ happy with what he has given me. The greates pinnacle in my life was the moment I emptied myself and confessed my sins and turned to the ones I hurt to make amends and do my level best to bring healing to them. I am doing just that. So, I have done better than wierwille when it comes to sin. Not in gathering donations, or selling classes, or amassing wordly goods under athe banner of a 501-c3...my crowning acheivement in life is the point where I literally humbled myself before Jesus Christ and came completely clean of my sins. My crowning acheivements in this life will be the moments I was able to undestand and do the will of the Lord. Thats all I have left and thats all I want. Much love in the Lord!

Actually, Jesus Christ will...

Thanks for being thoughtful and responding in turn. I dont have anything to add or change. Thanks!

I know what never occured between him and the congregation and by all accounts he was struggling to see what he had done wrong at the end of his life....with that said I don't think it matters that I dont know what went on between him and God.

You cant confess his sins for him...he owed a public explanation. Honest churches respond in such fashion when their leadership sins against the congregation.

Mike - as for the Churches. Is it better to have a Church with doctrinal issues but otherwise loves and feeds the flock the best they are able....or....have a Church that thinks it has all the doctrinal issues in check and figured out but has rampant sin and people get hurt, and on down the line. Note: When I say rampant sin I am not talking about the private lives of attendees/members/whatever .. Im treating the Church as it's own entity and referring to the state of that entity on its own merits.

A lot of folks just grew up and went on to do their thing which you noted...also after the dead stopped touring a lot if not most of the youngsters started following Phish around...think the psychadelics went too.

I feel like Im in good company.

Gotcha.

No doubt...heck Russians did too during WW2...check out Enemy at the Gates...

Well, I just blanket believed the stuff about the punctuation moving around and never really thought further until you mentioned it.

Bruh...Im good.... (*_*)

I had never considered that one.

Out of curiosity, were you involved in the Churches before wierwille?

No way! I'll def. check it out...very cool.