OldSkool

Really good question and I don't have an answer. The renewed mind concept in the way international (twi) is so overplayed it became kind of a nebulous term. Need to quit smoking? Renew your mind...Need money? Renew your mind and visualize money. So their practices likely do cause harm at times because we were taught to ignore reality in light of our confession.

Well, I don't think anyone has complete control over what they think...personally, I deal with mental associations that bring out some rather unsavory thoughts and experiences that I have to either choose to ignore or deal with.

Ok...now to deal with the material in the magazine article. According to the way international the Greek word pistis (most often translated faith) is really a swiss army word. For example, and Im quoting the magazine article: "Dr. Wierwille desired to carry out a similar study of the Greek word pistis. This word is typically translated faith in the English versions of the Bible, but this isnt its only meaning. Pistis can refer to believing, the manifestation of believing, fruit of the spirit believing, the faith of Jesus Christ, the family faith or faithfulness. The words faith and believing are often used." According to the article I quoted the way international has published a new book called Bible Kinds of Faith, which was compiled from Wierwille's "Pistis Seminars" in conjunction with the Research Dept at HQ and a team of researchers on the field. From here I will quote Dr. John Juedes to refute Wierwille's word salad he employs to mash his erroneous theology concerningfaith/pistis which directly ties into the erroneous law of believing doctrines still taught to this day by the way international. From: http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/rsr_wdsway2.htm "The Fallacy of Faith versus Belief The Way's fallacies undercut even the doctrine of salvation and faith. Wierwille's teaching on faith bears little resemblance to evangelical Christian belief. Wierwille distinguishes radically between faith and believing. To him faith is a spiritual thing given to man only after Pentecost, while anyone before or after Pentecost can believe by way of his five senses. Faith is not in God, but of God; not in Christ, but of Jesus Christ, and of the same measure and amount to every person.40 Peculiar use of words and passages pervades his discussion. We must ask: what wholesale confusion would result if we would distinguish love from loving, repentance from repenting, and sin from sinning, just as he distinguishes faith, or belief, from believing? Each of these pairs has a common Greek root. Wierwille would have to assign contrasting meanings to each if he were consistent. He must even clarify Paul's "manifestation of faith" by adding a parenthesis after it, "(believing) 1141 lest his doctrine fall apart. Apparently Paul knew no such distinction. If men all have the same amount of faith, as Wierwille says, we marvel at the number of times Scripture speaks of men being weak, strong, of full of faith (Rom. 4:19; 14: 1 ; 4:20; Acts 6:5, 8; 11: 24; Matt. 8: 10; 15:28; 1 Cor. 13:2), or of faith lacking, growing, or needing to be completed (I Thess. 3:10; 11 Thess. 1:3; Luke 17:5; Heb. 12:2; 13:7). Although Wierwille mentions that Romans 12:3 refers to "the measure of faith," he fails to note that it has no definite article ("the") in the Greek original.42 The context of Romans 12:3, as well as the reference to "proportion" of faith in verse 6, refutes his idea. Wierwille also adapts Mark 11:22, "Have faith in God," to his theology. He writes, "The 'original' text read, '. . . Have the faith of God .1 1143 He is apparently noting that in Greek no preposition exists between "faith" (pistin) and "of God" (theou), which is here in the genitive case. However, a deeper knowledge of Koine Greek reveals that this phrase is a genitive of aim, also known as a genitive objective. As such, it does not need a preposition such as "in" (en) to be understood as "faith in God."44 Examples of other genitives of aim include Romans 3:22 and Hebrews 6:2. Similar passages where the preposition is supplied are Colossians 1:4 and Ephesians 1: 15. This misunderstanding of Greek is also part of the source of Wierwille's belief in the "faith of Jesus Christ." Using Mark 11:22, Wierwille eventually asserts that anyone, Christian or non-Christian, can exercise this faith. However, verse 24 makes clear that only Christians have faith, by declaring, "What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." Prayer-requests to the one true God-is required, trusting that He will deliver. This is not a subjective confidence that one's desire will occur. Wierwille's exposition on faith uses John 20:29 to support his thesis that "until the day of Pentecost, people saw and then believed."45 The end of this same verse refutes his idea. Jesus uses aorist tenses to say, 11, . , blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." The Old Testament person did not require seeing in order to believe. Wierwille also makes the radical pronouncement that "there is no faith in the Gospels or in the Old Testament. When we read the word "faith" before the book of Acts, we are simply reading an error in translation. How many times do you think the word "faith" appears in the Old Testament in the King James Version? It appears only twice, once in Habakkuk 2:4 and once in Deuteronomy 32:20. Reading "faith" in context, one will see that it means "faithfulness, steadfastness.""46 At least three times the Apostle Paul quotes Habakkuk 2:4. Each time, contrary to Wierwille's thesis, be uses the word "faith" (pistis), not the word "faithful" (pistos) (Rom. 1:7; Gal. 3:11; Heb. 10:38). Wierwille's perspective indicts the inspired writer with gross misunderstanding. Wierwille also throws out some 42 instances of the word "faith" in the Gospels and Acts. His basis is not actual evidence but his surmisings that they were wrongly translated. One could rewrite the entire Bible on just as much evidence as he has here! There is no question that Wierwille has rewritten-the Bible's teaching on faith by distorting its words. Wierwille alters its entire character on the cardinal topic of faith." ---end quote. Also for those wondering about the law of believing there is: https://eyesupandopen.org/ http://www.empirenet.com/~messiah7/rsr_believing.htm (John Jeudes again...he actually has a real Doctorate unlike wierwille.) Alright...lets see where this goes.

Well..I don't know specifically what did or didn't happen that day but when u connect the dots vpw excluded his wife often enough cause he was a serial adulterer at best...I'm being nice.

I've gotten away from doing this ..I'll do my part. Thx.

Yeah. Smart. My son changed everything for me in that regard as well.

For some it's the only avenue they have after they've been bums.rushed and marken n avoided.

It would be misplaced. I was so brainwashed it took much to get me to wake up. I was a zealot at one point.

They essentially acknowledge this by referencing that they are sticking with his definitions and such with their new publication. But I was there when Rosalie pushed that proven ministry research line, basically canonizing wierwilles writings.

I can't say for sure on how they operate...but I know this much...whatever wierwille said in writing is considered proven ministry research and is above question.

Ill comment later. What do you guys think? https://cloud.disroot.org/s/4soqHMRmGo6SGKx

80 is the product of 40x2 He then quotes directly from number in scripture and leaves a clear reference, kudos there. Give credit where it is due. From number in scripture: "forty relates to a period of evident probation. >> (Vern changes it to trial and probation) But where it relates to enlarged dominion, or to renewed or extended rule," Then he goes to Genesis 41:32 where he states that "in our Biblical research ministry we have learned that two means established" Eighty is the product of 8x10 Vern then quotes again from number in scripture on the number 8: "Hence it is the number specially associated with Resurrection and Regeneration, and the beginning of a new era or order." Vern then quotes again from number in scripture on the number 10: "ten is one of the perfect numbers, and signifies the perfection of Divine order commencing, as it does, an altogether new series of numbers" So Vern copiously borrows from Number in Scripture and at least leaves a reference to where he is getting his material. It is exciting and encouraging to look at these numbers in light of the ministries continued restoration and rejuvenation. So vern spiritualizes the heck out of the way international and leaves the readers to draw their own conclusions as to what in the actual eff he is talking about. Dear Vernon, Number in Scripture is actually a sleight of hand move by EW Bullinger to introduce Gematria into Christianity. While, Bullinger is not the first to do so, Gematria is associated with the Kabbalah - which is an occultic version of Jewish Mystiscism. Vern what you are propagating is Christian witchcraft. Everything I say here is verifiable with just a short and easy google search. The way international continues to propogate the occult blend of Christianity, which is Christian in name only. Please repent. Much Love in the Lord, OldSkool

I like the pass he took at the RnR folks...talking about the way ministries restoration and rejuvenation.

https://cloud.disroot.org/s/sNsjiEBP9QAz7zq

Cool! I didnt realize he was this diverse as an author.

Yes! I watch his YouTube videos from time to time.

No they were not humbled...they doubled down on their dishonesty because their positions and livelyhoods were at stake. Mike this is the time I was way corps and I saw it all. You fell for the whitewash...they regrouped nothing. They gave an unknown amount of money to the plaintiffs in the Allen lawsuit so the entire mess wouldnt goto court where the way international and all named in the lawsuit WOULD have been found guilty. The way asked for a summary judgement with the settlement and it was denied. 4 of the original 6 counts were going to trial and included in that list of charges that the JUDGE UPHELD were RICO charges...so you are following a church that draws the same charges as the mafia. Mike - it wasnt LCM's mess...rampant adultery and sexual abuse in the way international traces directly to wierwille. Martindale simply carried on a famiy tradition of sorts...

judging from his content, online persona, and stated intentions I would say this is his goal.

I consider him a combatant and not reader.

definately not you cause you have...yep...not directed at you...only readers.

We offer you verifiable facts and truth that stands the test of all intellectual honesty. No the material here isnt perfect but refute the actual material... what you want is some rah rah crap like wierwille gave you...you want saleman and showmanship. That's not Christ.

The view is a little limited in wierwilles works...

Well, myself and many others took that plunge into the way corps and into the so called "top" leadership ranks...thinking there would be an appropriate delegation of authority and responsibiity. Mike, or whoever he really is, appearantly has only romantiscised notions what that is actually like in TWI. Let me break it down: We were class salesman and paper pushers. Glorified administrative help. The entire system is rife with politics and micromanagement, nepotism, and favoritism. Its been that way since wierwille and its that way today. And no amount of day dreaming will change that. Thats the cliff notes. Perhaps we should do a thread on each others way corps experiences. Not for mike, he blames the way corps for the minustree's problems...it's Gawds minustree and the evil way corps ruined what our father in da verd established that had been lost since the first century...now I guess its lost again for another few thousand years.

Nah, dont use my mostly irrelevant post to ignore the weighter matters where you refuse to respond. Deal with the actual material. Its obvious you are trying to derail and confuse threads. We arent jumping to concussions discussing wierwilles fake doctorate. Show me where the doctorate isnt fake...show me where I am in error on pike peaks accreditation, or lack thereof. Cmon...smash some atoms.