OldSkool

Thank you, Sir!

Thats a really good point as to how relative perception really is and how that perception can vary depending on the specific anatomy of the ear. Dogs can hear higher frequencies than humans. Since its really the complex workings of the inner ear that translate these waves into electrical impulses and so on... To quote Nikola Tesla: If you want to find the secrets of the universe think in terms of energy, frequency, and vibration. Perhaps the spirit realm (just to use a familiar overused cheesy term) is not so much a realm but a plane of existance we cant perceive. Bolsh, you essentially said the same thing when you stated "We all live in a narrow band of perception" So who is to say as a consequence of the fall our perception was narrowed significantly to what we can currently perceive.

I think that fits a lot of perspectives...Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. Where as divine is relating to God, with God being the highest in a classifications of spirit beings that are "higher" than ourselves. So otherworldly actually really communicates. But in this case God is otherworldly to the one we currently live and therein lies the crux of a perfect creator saving and redeeming an imperfect creation. Naturally, we dont truly understand the true nature of our creator considering the best we can do in these carbon based tabernacles is see through a glass darkly.

Dead on with what I experienced.

Im thinking the universe is finite and God infinite, accordingly there is so much we just dont understand about God, life, Christ, the world, universe, etc. Even though the creation is finite theres so much we dont really understand. I guess thats what happens when the creation is corrupted and seperated by sin from it's creator. Anywho. Im thinking there very could be other dimensions and such...that part is so far beyond me that the best I can do is expectantly wait for God to bring us along throughout eternity as we will see him face to face so to speak. But as far as a natural realm and a seperate spiritual realm as defined by the way international:? I think thats all garbage. I feel that if anything that its man's perspective that changed after the fall. Meaning as a consequence of sin mankind was no longer to walk/talk face to face with God -- so to speak because God is spirit. So, while God may be right next to us at all times we dont necesarily "see" him or "sense" him in the same manner that humans interact. Oh...where scripture talks about that which is "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"....TWI uses this verse to mark out two seperate realms: Physical/spiritual. I dont think thats what it says at all. I think in these verses in John Jesus was teaching that a new creation was coming and a man must be born again into that new creation. Whats born after the flesh is corrupted by sin. That which is born of the spirit is incorruptible seed that cannot sin. So we are talking about natures inherited from which source they originate. Flesh = corruption and death --- Spirit = incorruption and eternal life. So, I imagine the world as it is and it works to imagine it as a flat/perhaps spherical plane in shape, while the firmament above is multi-dimensional in nature.

Kudos for keeping things together in your marriage, that's not an easy thing to do for way corps after the cult and way corps requirements are removed.

Im 100% with you on the entire post but the part I put in bold was exactly where I found myself once I fell out of favor and hit the exit back in 2008. It all resulted in sever depression, anxiety, and alcohol abuse to numb it all out. While I take full responsibility for all of my actions, especially the alcohol abuse, I was set on a path of ruin from the get go. And because of the law of believing garbage I was unable to accept loss and move on --- that would have been a negative confession. And if it took all of that for me to be where I am today then so be it because I have a REALLY good life and am very thankful and happy. Peace!

Your not. That's newer verbage and they moved the usual line if bs down the page further and made it sound like a means to an end.... "Our fundamental structure for carrying out the heart of The Way Ministry is Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship"

All that effort spent and all so they can deify wierwille and maintain the vpw preservation society. Crazy. Thank God I'm out of that place and have the best relationship with God I've ever had

Apparently, according to some very deluded individuals, he preferred the PFLAP Orange Book...

Dude...we are on the exact same page.

It's laughable the manner in which the way international romanticizes our modern day Bibles. They keep their followers ignorant of history and try to spiritualize and worship a book. Personally, I stand in awe of the Bible and that's from studying it for 28 years or so. The more I study and just read what is written the easier it is to peel off wierwilles doctrines and fundamentalist ideals. Your a highly intelligent individual so you can see that what the fundie crowd says doesn't match reality. It leaves one grasping fir straws....well speaking for myself of course. I've felt that way at times.

Scrolls and such containing what we know as the Old Testament we're kept in the Synagogues and Temple. Those scrolls we're not an exact match of our Old Testament, books have been removed. The Septuagint was the text of the day so to speak. Most likely Jesus, and most others learned from the Septuagint. The New Testament was compiled from cyclical letters. Nobody in the first century had the Bible as we have it. The first Bible wasn't printed until 1455 in Germany: The Gutenberg Bible. There's been various Canons developed. Some of the books that were dropped from our Canon likely shouldn't have been. Then there were the oral traditions that were passed down amongst Israel...many of those traditions were codified into modern day Judaism. Same old schtick as wierwille. The pharisees told people they needed their traditions to interpret the Torah. There was also the Babylonian Talmud. Jesus Christ referred to the oral traditions as well as the Babylonian Talmud as the traditions of men. He was against them fully.

The entire idea that you are a teacher and people here are your students is straight comedy. You can't even write a proper discussion paper and your inattention to pertinent detail is glaringly obvious. You try and bully people in discussion with veiled insults. You change your position faster than a pair of socks. Fantasy land. Lose the assumed moral and intellectual superiority...those garments are too big for you.

That's not what I read... For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Or you can reject unsound doctrine so you dont become delusional.

Over the past few years I have started to ponder if we need to understand Jesus Christs relationship with God and his current function in his elevated state as a present and future affair. Scripture is clear that God in the beginning created... However, scripture speaks of a new heaven and a new earth. Who is to say that Jesus Christ doesnt have a major role in it's preperation and creation. We no longer know him after the flesh and scripture calls him a life giving spirit. Who are we to tell God how to be God and limit our understanding of Jesus Christ based on fundamentalism nonsense. Cool post T-Bone. Oh...I think the main reason Mike, TWI, etc stumble with Jesus Christ, beyond that fact that he is meant to be a stumbling and rock of offence at times, is they cant comprehend that Jesus Christ is no longer what we would call human: that's to say a carbon based lifeform. What if he is a plasma based life form? Whatever he was changed into at the ressurection and ascenscion is beyond our comprehension. Again, revelation gives a glimpse: Revelation 1:10-18 10 was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

A person just can't make it make sense.

They were in the stone ages as of 2008. Judging from their website they have tapped some young talent that understands social media and such. I highly doubt they actually track anybody online but who knows anymore. My guess is they used information off their AS400 to send the postcards. Who knows...maybe they replaced that archaic relic...but I doubt it.

Right! The great line of demarcation that moves constantly to support mikes position...wherever that position is today...the great divide between the physical realm and the spiritual realm...lmao...pure fantasy. There is no divide...where all these different rules apply.

You have no idea whatsoever what Jesus Christ is doing or where he is or who he chooses to appear to. What you have that you cherish so dearly are lies from a fake minister that you refuse to see past.

What you seem to fail to realize is nobody really cares about the internal, political wranglings of those in the way international. It's irrelevant. Bottom line never changes: wierwille was a false prophet who was a serial adulterer, drunk, and sexual predator who lied constantly the way international is his legacy. Neither the way international or anything else vpw left behind once he died is needed to understand scripture or have a relationship with God Almighty and his non-absent son Jesus Christ.

U really love the memory of wierwille that u elevate it above all else...then cognitive dissonance kicks in and we get hammered with confirmation bias....Mike. Your love for wierwille above God and the man that died for you, the non-absent Jesus Christ is not good. In fact it's your problem and your ok with that. So what do I care.

My bad, yo!