OldSkool

Now now fellas....you know were all special in our own special way...some of even have a specialty in being special.

but since you say you read my verses and comments I bet you filed away your response on a stack of 3x5 cards somewhere....

straw-man.

I was in your shoes, and shoes youve never worn and I left once I figured out the whole organization is crooked as a dog leg.

Psstt.....mike....Raf thinks your full of bullshonta.

so typical of the way international and it's followers. Grease Spot Cafe is comprised of people from all walks of life. so not everyone has the same story and not everyone here was hurt by the way international. However, many of us have and I am one of them. I will not keep silent about how evil the way international is or that victor paul wierwille was a lying plagaraist, rapist, drunk, false prophet, and all around con-man. But my point with quoting mike is the way international has a long history of victim blaming that their adherents happily engage. At this point mike is now blaming people who post on grease spot cafe for his actions. Heck, hes derailing this thread right now and yet again.

Not my fault that's how he lived and I wont keep silent about it...though it sure kicks off your cognitive dissonance to the nth degree....

Keying off of Nathan_Jr's post from the Absent Christ? thread. I wanted to hash this one out for a few minutes from my own experiences. Ok, rewind back to 1996 and I was a tough young thug running the streets of NYC. Completely out of control and rife with alcoholism and substance abuse problems, depression, anxiety and the like. And...I was witnessed to, yes proselytized by a band mate in a music group I played lead guitar in at the time. Well, anyway, I latched onto the Bible like it was my lifeline, and it was, and still is for that matter. So as I took the classes and climbed my way through the ranks of classes, various nametags, ministry programs, way corps and the like I really thought I was fine. Let me explain. I quit drinking for a period of time when I got involved with the way international. All my other psycho behaviors pretty much went out the window and I thought I was a "new man"....I applied the law of believing as taught by the way international, I directed my thoughts and energies into many positive directions....and I thought that handled all my previous problems because the way international said it was handled. All my answers were coming through the classes and such...or so I thought. Well, fast forward a good 12 years from 96 and I was hitting the exit from the way international as fast as I could get my behind out of new knoxville. I still thought I was fine...well...I wasnt...I had started drinking socially several years before 2008 and had a bottle firmly in hand in 2008. It was my friend, that bottle was my precious. Now, nit wits in TWI world like to think that all these problems returned to me because I had left the way ministry and violated my salt covenant because I left the way corps. Complete bull$h!t. So after dang near drinking myself to death I turned to Christ. No ministry, no outside direction from anyone. Just me and Jesus Christ. That was the beginning of my delieverance. Ive since come to realize that you can't take mental issues, substance abuse, alcoholism and the like and "confess them all away." No amount of positive thinking will do the trick. It wasnt until I did 16 weeks of counselling that I really began to understand what my problems were and how to unravel them. First off, I recognize that I am an alcoholic and as such have a medical condition where I cannot tolerate alcohol...period. Second off, I came to realize that I refused to accept loss. The law of believing would not allow me to accept loss because that would be a negative confesssion....and I was oh so strong in my believing ya know...except i wasnt..I digress... Thirdly, I had some serious depression and anxiety issues that never really left but were ignored and swept under the rug. Depression is a spirit according to the way international and I would never go for help in the way international because I didnt want to be labelled posessed.... Alright...a lot of words to get to my point: The way international is completely unqualified to help anyone with their hodge podge, cobbled together, unbiblical doctrines. You cant ignore major medical problems such as alcoholism or mental issues such as depression...or even psychotic anger, (which I am still prone to and am still fighting to over come) and call that deliverance. Yey that's exactly what the way international taught me to do. By turning to Christ I have slowly but surely been working out my own salvation with respect and awe! Im still a work in progress, but for the longest time in my life to date I am completely sober and have a really good life. The Lord has restored what the locust ate and then some. For anyone considering the way international as a solution to your problems....RUN! Run straight to God and Christ. Or just run to get the heck out of the way before real damage is done. My problems festered under a fake smile and 3 piece suit with multiple nametags. You cannot ignore your problems and confess them away. That's magickal thinking and it nearly cost me my life. By the way, God's Word has never returned void in my life. God had his hand on my life the entire time and eventually led me to safety and deliverance and complete peace. The way international gets NO credit. But God never left my side and my life is in the Lord's hands...quite literally.

Thanks for the insight, really cool post.

Holy SheepShonta Batman! We finally made something fit like a...

Agreed. He appearantly didn't have much depth to his reasoning. He was smart enough to gather unto himself what was donated to help move da verd. That took some form of intelligence...pimps have some form of intellignence...

The concept is not totally without merit in scripture. However, it's the way in which wierwille capitilized on the concept, to promote himself as some great one, the entire time making Christ absent from his ministry, and forbidding interaction between followers and their savior. Scripture clearly shows copious interaction between Christ and his followers in Acts and we are told to let Christ into our lives as T-Bone once more demonstrated from scripture. Let him into our lives and not make him absent to us personally. In 2 Corinthins 5 our earthly house of this tabernacle refers to our current physical, carbon based bodies. Paul is indicating his desire to be changed into what we will all be changed to in the future: A body that doesn't die, get sick, etc. One like Jesus Christ currently has. We are the ones absent from Christ in the sense that we are flesh and blood and he is not and is in the heavenlies with God. This is rather obvious, and not to answser for Raf, seems to be the point people agree on that wierwille stated but then morphed into an anti-Christ doctrine; making Christ absent in his Lordship and function as head of the body. Thus, there are points of accord along the way. I feel it was typical of wierwille to speak on things he didnt REALLY understand and morph his own doctrine based on his twisted concepts. Raf will answer on his own, or not, but even though you weren't directly addressing me I still thought my two cents may offer some insight...maybe not.. 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Nice flame bait, there, sir Troll-A-Lot. But the topic is the absent Christ? Go start a thread about the accuracy of the collaterals. Thats been going on here for years....heck just bump one up from the dead.

No it isnt. Its present day, right now. What happened to the Word of God being an eternal now?

You make it about you.

You would have to denounce wierwille as your lord.

Disagreement is not a personal attack. You dont get to preach down to people around here...nobody I know of is on that mess.

And I think you hit the nail on the head. Christ is absent to the way international and they feel like they stand in some imaginary gap for people.

Man, it's like they wait at the exits or something....

My Lord, I was so close to going that route back in 2008. Thank God I didn't because it wouldve been so easy and I had three offshoots wanting me to work for them...egads.

PFAL>?< (-:

Her's proof mike doesnt actually read what we post, except in a very selective manner. Mike: None of the scriptures in that list are in blue, but my comments are in blue. Had you actually read any of it you would know that but yet you accuse others of not reading your posts...ya..right...

Im quoting this as a continuation of my above post with the following addition: Judgemental much? When did you become the searcher of hearts? Does God stand there like he supposedly did with VPW and indicate to you which of us has a black heart and which of us doesnt? No! What does happen is once we disagree with you and you can't prove your point of view, which is often, you resort to name calling and judgemental insults. Im used to it, so go ahead and show your true colors. That sort of behaviour is rampant in the way international. Show the world how you guys really act behind closed doors.

You see, Mike, raf intervened because he is a moderator and he was trying to get us back on topic and unfortunately, we (myself included) have a habit of letting you comletely derail a thread when you have been proven in error. That he agrees with your position in part has more to do with his objectivity and likely from his career in journalism. He remained professional and got the topic back on track and put his own points of view out there for discussion in a logical, respectful manner..and lo and behold! He was treated with love and respect in-turn. He didn't come along talking down to an audience that he feels are inferior to his own points of view. I mention that because thats how you come off most times and then you seemingly get upset when one of us won't take it any longer. Its a bullying tactic used by the way international. Jack Clergy talks down to Joe Believer in his branch repeatedly and in a disrespectful manner. Eventually, Joe Believer stands up for himself and gets in Jack Clergy's face about it. Then Jack Clergy goes on about how Joe Believer attacked him and has a hard heart and doesn't love God and all that bullshonta Ive seen played out so many times....and here you are doing the same crap. I wouldnt brag about Raf's intervention though you see it as a life preserver of sorts... Thats not something to be proud of....well, unless your goal is to derail topics...but you would never do that..

So he took wierwille's fried eggs and refried them. Refired eggs..mmm...actually, I agree with wierwille's statement. Whatever you have to do to know the Lord Jesus: do it! Makes sense to me. Mike: Ive never said that every single thing that wierwille ever said is wrong. There's a lot of things he had right. It's just that the things that are wrong are both subtle and grevious. Anywho.