OldSkool

When I was there the numbers were all hush hush. I can tell you that it's common for limb coordinators who do not want to work a secular job to keep people on the books who left long ago. Pathetic.

There's not enough people left to have a mass exit.

Welcome to the Cafe. You make some really good points that are obviously ignored by the way international. The thing that used to get me was clear scripture in the Church epistles that simply stated that as a person purposed in his heart so let him give. Cheerful giver comes to mind in the same context. But instead of teaching what was in the New Testament they turn to the Old Testament to suit their own ends. Then turn around and lay the burden on cash strapped people to give no matter what. Furthermore, the context I quoted from the bible never says to only give money. It just says to give. I'm reminded of Tabitha (Dorcas) who sewed garments for people, Peter raised her from the dead. Yet they esteem themselves "accurate" in their teachings on the topic. So much so that it is beyond question and is relegated to the untouchable status of law and the doctrine considered proven ministry research. To make matters worse this law's interpretation was twisted for staffers when they were living on a need basis before the system changed. My first year on staff was still need basis and changed mid-way. I was told that I did not need to tithe as a staffer because I was giving so much. Let me translate that into plain English: We are paying you so little that you honestly cannot afford to tithe and still afford toiletries and other basic needs.

John Rupp is a spineless yes man. He is a one dimensional puppet with the depth of a shallow mud puddle. He views life with "Rosalie" colored glasses and that is about it. If you have ever had the misfortune to be around him and were not intimidated by him being a big shot you might have noticed it made him very uneasy. Also, if you don't laugh at his stupid foot "pun" based humor that he is constantly trying to win people with he is noticeably uncomfortable. I had session after session with that man and when I calmly but sternly held my ground and then asked logical questions of his reasoning he would run out of discourse rather quickly and then dismiss the meeting in a "friendly" manner. Without fail he would call another meeting, usually on the spur of the moment, only to attack the subject from another angle and then only to be reasoned into silence again. Can you guess what was happening between the meetings?........You guessed it. He was calling his handler, Rosalie, to get the next line of instructions from her. He is a puppet and nothing more. No doubt when Gepetto, I mean Rosalie can't do the job any more (aka any day now) he no doubt has his eyes on that chair of hers. I could go on with my disdain for that shell of a man but it's really not worth it. Ok, detaching myself from bad memories now....ok, off to enjoy my Saturday.

ROFL! Glad found better than a PFAL book. I write twi cause I'm too damn lazy to type the way international all the time. I purposely don't cap their names, titles, and organization names because they would so insist that it be capped.

Yes it is. They will take any positive press and laud it to the stars at the noon meal at HQ. Wonder if this will come up at all? or if they will try to ignore it. They could put the standard "whether in truth or contention, Christ is preached" out of context scriptural spin on the whole affair. Or the "it's the adversary attacking us by....insert diabolical action here....." crap on it. Either way, reality is lost on them. Also all the negative effects they leave on people is lost on them as well. Sooner or later a day of reckoning will come.

I'm all for not trusting the government. That is as American as apple pie. But, egads, talk about going off the deep end. What I find ironic is our founding Father's fought a revolution and established a free, constitutional republic. The Way International does not advocate getting involved in the proper, civil channels for changing things for the better and they shun any political activity as "worldly." So instead they want to go around acting like they are God's little cornfield militia. For the record, the paranoia remains deeply entrenched in the upper echelon cornfield leadership. However, the paranoia seems more directed at some disgruntled person coming after Rosalie or one of her lapdogs. Guilty conscience perhaps? I doubt it, but I do find it amusing. To my knowledge, no one is actively pursuing all the pseudo-revolutionary non-sense that Wierwille and other's were after in the mid to late seventies.

Maybe ATF gonna raid the compound?... ....just being a smart a$$.

That's a tremendously, wonderful, clarification as we are prevailing in the....uhhh..sorry had a flashback. Thanks for the explanation!

geisha779 - that is probably the best post I have read. Thanks.

Well, TWI has taken this a step further. The microphone is shared amongst a designated few and what those designated few can and cannot say is tightly controlled by Rosalie. She leads mostly from behind the scenes while giving the illusion that there are many teachers coming and going week from week. What appears to be and what actually is going on is very different.

Well, I lived through this type of treatment and it was just a couple short years ago. The only help I got from those I asked, with the exception on one individual, was to put it all on my wife and I by saying that when we were ready we would receive the deliverance for our son that God wanted to give. Basically it was inferred that it was our fault. This came at a time where I had spent a year and a half immersed in all of TWI's teachings on the law of believing, receiving this or that, manifestations of holy spirit, Ad infinitum - Ad nauseam. We had worked ourselves into a frenzy to "claim" his deliverance. It was epic fail. Anyway. Later, when one of the inept directors was involved it became clear that he was had two purposes, and they were in this order. 1 - keep us on staff and ,as way corps, in line with the directors desires for us. Even though our situation was complicated by an hour drive to one medical center and a two hour drive to the other medical center where he would be, and is getting a lot of care. 2. - To find out what was going wrong with us that would impede our believing to receive deliverance for our son. Again, it was our fault. End result? - We moved where we needed to be to ease the strain on our family and disregarded all the subtle, and not so subtle, accusations that we as the parents were responsible and impeding deliverance for our son's disease. We then promptly sent a letter of resignation, and have freed ourselves from these effects of their evil actions, taken in the name of God. As for the bumbling, inept director? During one of our "sessions" my wife handed him our son and asked that he minister to him. He took him, looked at him for a minute and handed him back w/o even praying for him.

Great posts, roberterasmus.

That's interesting, to say the least. I had always considered that phrase to be indicative of the great care TWI used in handling the scriptures. They have great care alright, it's just misplaced on things like making sure certain words are capitalized, or not calling Jesus anything except Jesus Christ, etc. Yet, unintelligent, antisocial, and unethical describes that organizations modus-operandi to a T.

Well said.

Eeks, pray tell. did Harvey start with Rosalie since she lied about how much, and when she knew?

Nothing is that boring.

I believe as you that the jot and tittles are very important. However, one of the areas where TWI errs is by placing such an overwhelming emphasis on the jot and tittles, and forgetting that they are still prone to sin as anyone else. They forget the grace and mercy that we all need. So to take a lesson from Jesus - "Go and learn what this means - I desire mercy and not sacrifice.: For I came not to call the righteous but sinners." This was from a man who was steeped in jot and tittles, yet had such amazing love, grace, and mercy towards the sinners he came to call to salvation. Learning from this example has freed me from the bondage that TWI placed me under and allowed me to enjoy the details without thinking that all of life was hidden in their intricacies, and if I didn't master them I would take the thrashing of an eternity at the hands of an angry Lord come judgment day.

Not to get of on a doctrinal tangent. But, it's an appropriate name since they value God's Word more than God, who authored it, or Jesus Christ who is the Word made flesh. They have that verse mixed up where it says God magnified his word above his name. First, they take it out of context at the expense of the other gods mentioned where the Psalmist says "before the gods will I sing praises to you" - point is God's name is higher than the "gods." Second, in the immediate context God' faithfulness and power are emphasized. Third, and most important, in the remote Context God has exalted Jesus above every name, etc. The point of my ramblings is God never exalted his word above himself. He exalted it above all his name - there is a big difference.

Not to my knowledge. A resounding yes. Working in-house is Gary Frederick who gives much legal-esque advice, even though he is not a lawyer. I believe they still use Baker Hostetler, but who knows. http://www.bakerlaw.com/ The attorneys definitely have a hand in running the show by counsel. Basically, from my understanding, it boils down to this: In that a church's practices do not violate established laws the church may continue in it's practices. Personally, I think they really push the envelope on this one and sooner or later they will screw with the right person who will be savvy enough to document the case and file suit with a competent attorney. They have in no way abolished all of the old, illegal practices and many of the top leadership are totally ignorant of Human Resource matters. Definitely not. Too many cheerleaders and spineless worms around to do that. Besides, the BOD are foolish enough to bite off their nose to spite their face. They would call the bluff and downsize or make due with what they have or whatever. Not really. When I was there it was the same thing. A camp of quiet dissenters and a camp of cheerleaders. The dissenters usually leave staff and the cheerleaders are the dominant bunch. Any dissent that manages to make it's way to top leadership is squashed and dismissed via character assanation. i.e. - "So and so needs to renew their mind to blah....and learn to be thankful for blah...we have years of accumulated wisdom at the director level....blah....blah...." (I was actually told by a director that there is years of accumulated wisdom at the director level.... ) No, they are too dense for that to make a difference and remain in denial to the on-going attrition. Nostalgia is the flip side of denial.

I had no idea this crap was that deep rooted. Rosalie has taken it to a new level and enshrined the practice. That explains where it came from though, the board of directors (including Rosalie) have very few original thoughts with which to lead and guide the followers of the little corn field cult. Before I was way corps or had held top leadership positions I thought the teachings were the work of the teachers and that the teachers did biblical research, and that the way ministry had people dedicated to biblical research. I was aghast when I learned the truth. It was another reason in a long list that led to my eventual departure and finally waking up from that cult.

I think one of the hardest aspects I had to deal with after being so entrenched in this cult's little subculture was being completely and totally ostracized by people I thought were my brothers and sisters. It really sent me for a free fall. And I am a person who is quite independent and has little regard if I am looked down on. Fear of being cast out of the synagogue is definitely one of the biggest choke collars keeping people in the camp. My advice to anyone thinking of leaving is these people aren't your friends in the first place. If they truly love you they will be there after you leave and will respect your decision to not support TWI. Out of dozens of people, I have one friend that stays in touch. Otherwise, there are no others and I am glad. They are not welcome in my house and I have marked and avoided them. Romans says to mark those which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine you have received - therefore, I have marked and avoided TWI and anyone who carries their divisions and offenses.

Thanks and you're welcome. I plan to break this topic down a little further and get into how teachings are produced. It doesn't matter the teaching avenue or who teaches (except maybe Queen Rosalie??), teachings are whitewashed and molded through the same process. It doesn't matter who the current mouth piece is they do not have their own psalm or their own doctrine but a cookie cutter presentation of approved topics that are administered in a very heavy handed, systematic method. Which will further prove that TWI is lying that they are a research ministry. One would think that teaching topics are researched by the teacher and that the teacher is free to present new light, etc. The teachers are under a very heavy hand, and what research they do is actually cross checking their topic with what has previously been taught. When I post it up I will detail the whole process. Stay tuned.

Yes! I went way disciple twice,an entire year of 40 hours of witnessing per week. I have told countless people that line about new research and TWI willingness to change their writings and have humility to the bible. I was sorely deceived and the subsequent disillusionment when I found out the truth was rough. The sad truth is they will not change what is considered proven ministry research. Period. The logic, if you could call it that, is once it's proven true it doesn't change because truth doesn't change. Whats true is true. End of story. Hold up, I need some more koolaid

Yep.