OldSkool

Ya, they still have quite a few folks overseas. I think that is in part to the internationals not knowing what it's really like state-side.

Well, I can't speak for New Zealand but my first go round as Way Disciple in 1998 we had 16 folks and split them into two classes that run simultaneously. I stayed on after WD and ran a fellowship. After approximately 6 months or so all of them were gone except one person and she eventually let. Since Craig was ousted Way Disciple participation plummeted and it's quite a challenge to put classes together with the boring crap put out by the way international these days. For fun let's do a little basic math. 16 way disciples for 40 hours per week for 26 weeks = 16,640 man hours spent witnessing, under-shepherding, and such. 16 people at $100 per head for the class and any residual ABS at $2640 ($1600 in class revenue and let's throw $1040 as an abs number figured at $10.00 an hour / $400 per week gives $40 per week at %10) Mmmm - let's forget about the fulltime Branch / Limb guy that spent lots of time with us and running the classes etc. Mmmm...someone needs to teach them the value of a profit/loss report...lol But, Belle, as you so aptly point out indirectly they have lots of free labor lining their pockets. The math is lame but gives a estimated snapshot at how incredibly wasteful they are, all the while claiming they steward every penny. :blink:

Oh my, that's just poor stewardship and a lousy witness....lmao!

I wonder how long before Rosalie takes em to court...

I heard stories from my former section coordinator that there were orgies, wife swapping, and other merry happenings out there. I guess no one operated discerning of spirits to clean the place out....oh wait...when it was sold it was empty, swept, and garnished...ok that was lame, I just couldn't resist. you get it ?? ...empty...swept...oh ok, you get it...

All hail!....lol Man, those folks need to get a life.

Godzilla isn't a blue hair either.

See, that is precisely what many field leadership think and even though they disagree with it and know it's wrong they will not do anything about it. They decide to live under that hypocrisy for .....insert reason here....., and generally refuse to go near headquarters unless it's for a short event. But go on staff?....no way. The honest thing to do is to air your grievances and leave if there is no resolution. But it's interesting that the bondage that the innie's are in is so obvious when you are on the outside looking in. Anyways... I would love that link Belle. Thanks in advance if you have it.

Well it only serves to reason that you would be assigned to the grounds department at international where you can do your penance. Apparently, everyone else will be in food services.

I suspect this topic may have been sufficiently hammered over the years. But ... The Way International bills itself as a Biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry. Now I was way disciple 2x. I spent a full year "witnessing" mega hours per week and advertising the research part. I always used to think that the research was so special and what made the way international so special and above all other organizations - I was proud. Anyways, we all know the history. Victor Paul Wierwille's "research" turns out to be plagiarized from multiple sources, the good old days where the research team at international brought new light turned out to be not so good in hind sight, since the research turns out to be suspect at best, Craig Martindale ran off or fired most of the old research team, Wayne Clapp eventually left leaving only Craig who was fired in 2000. Please correct me where my memory no longer serves me. Enter Rozilla. She comes out with this new fangled "research policy" that "opens the doors" for all in the ministry to add to the storehouse of research currently available in the way international. Yuk. Anyways, if someone comes across some new research it is to be submitted to Headquarters where it is worked extensively, comparing it to proven ministry research, etc. Then it is put on the shelf for 6 months then re-worked again. If it proves of merit it is presented to the way corpse for feedback. Then it is presented to the household. You know in the 10 years since this policy came around I cannot remember one time where new research was presented. Not one. So this new policy was billed as something that would allow all to contribute and in reality it was the final nail in the coffin for the way international's research efforts. So, where's the research, eh?

Refried beans...lol

Oh, I think they are referring to the way duhsciple teams that were there.

What Ham said... :P

That's classic! Love it!

Thanks!

Well, I can tell you that folks that left the ministry in recent years are simply not mentioned. It drives people crazy cause they came to have relationships with people who are now seemingly vanished. My mom used to ask her fellowship/branch coordinators about folks who had disappeared and they would talk using a low tone of voice that person was not fellowshipping any longer. It was if they had died. I defer to the "innies" to enlighten us on our positions in the future....maybe will have to do community service or something for leaving the way.

Shift, I really don't expect you to catch up on all the questions that came your way. I guess we can get a little excited when the dialog starts with someone who is still in the way ministry. I can speculate (probably accurately) from your posts that you are a sincere person who is doing the best with what you know. For a variety of reasons (and many are listed here on Grease Spot) I am irreconcilably departed from the way ministry. I don't expect you to take my word for it anymore than I believed other's accounts when I was still "in" and lurking on Grease Spot. Lurked here since 2005 or so. From reading your posts I can see the same judgmental methods I used to support and employ myself. I used to expect people to qualify themselves as wanting the word by how quickly they became excited and obedient to what I told them. Shift, that's just plain wrong. The Bible directs the Christian Church to hold forth the Word of Life, to work the Ministry of Reconciliation, to walk in love towards them that are without. God is love and that (agape) love is simple in it's intricate beauty - give. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. We are to judge nothing before the time, we are to let Jesus Christ the righteous judge have his day in the future. Obviously, these judgments are specific in their reservations since we have to make judgments between right and wrong to live day to day. We see in the gospels that Jesus definitely spent more time with those who wanted to learn all they could, he also handled his adversaries with candor. However, there are so many examples where he extended himself to vile people (vile according to Old Testament law and their societies standards) and really helped them. I could name situation after situation. Then we get into the church epistles where Christ is the active head of the body, directing the affairs of the Church. I challenge you to check your understanding of the book of Romans. Specifically the concept of two natures. Sin nature and new nature, old versus new. If you read Romans and think that the old is obliterated now I would re-read it. For example note the contrast in Romans 7 vs Romans 8. Yet the two chapters should likely be one. My point? As Christians we are not to judge. We are to remember that we are saved by grace, that we were the lowest of the low - dead in trespasses and sins. If you understand the structure of Romans - that there is an outer section that deals with sins we commit, and an inner section that deals with the root cause, the sin nature, then you will come to understand that there is no difference between you, a homosexual, me, or anyone else. From that perspective of humility, to understand that all of us are worthy of judgment, then hopefully you would find it in yourself to love the un-lovable. To reach out with all the love in your heart and give others the chance to know Christ without placing the way ministry's stipulations on how it should be done. I will refrain from going any further. You are welcome to private message me and I would be happy to talk in more detail. BTW - I have no interest in you leaving the ministry you love no more that I have an interest in keeping my Catholic neighbors from attending mass.

Hiya, Karwin54 - Welcome!

Ya, this one probably pi$$es me off the most. Waysider hits the nail on the head. The reason it gets me is the systematic indoctrination, guilt, fear, self-helplessness, and other learned characteristics that are used by the way international to control people. So a person is schooled and trained into strict obedience and to follow coercive tactics to enforce participation in da ministry. That sort of programming is especially vulnerable to predators wearing marble name tags, holy spirit dove rings, and using their positions as spokesman for God to manipulate others into things they do not want to do. Then when the truth comes out the victim is blamed!

Well, let's not forget that not only was it stressed that it was a one time affair, but equally emphasized were the words "mutually consensual." Now why on earth would that need to be emphasized....things that make you go mmmmmmm.... :unsure:

Around the year 2000, in reference to Craig Martindale having too much power and in emphasizing her efforts to fix that problem I remember Rosalie reciting the famous quote from Lord Acton that "absolute power corrupts absolutely." In the 10 years since then she absolutely has all the power in the way ministry. So..., I may not look like I'm that bright - and by golly I may not be that bright. But it seems to me that was her admission that she is absolutely corrupt. That's all, thank you, have a good night.

Geez, Tony Robbins, of the name it and claim it fame, never turned away; he just did his own thing based on the law of believing and did not give TWI credit for his existence. I don't really know that but it's my story and I'm sticking to it!

They have to just hate that their dirty laundry has, in this interweb society, outpaced their few remaining minions out there going door to door and creeping through shopping center looking for the devout.

Yep. He used to talk a lot of smack about whooping a$$ and then shield himself with armed safety officers. Nice eh?

Old raisins and pocket lint. Yum