OldSkool

Thanks! Really, she caught me off guard with that one. And I laughed till my sides hurt. And I remember the same with talent and spirits. I dunno, to me it's just ignorance on their part and the sad part is it puts people in bondage to not be able to appreciate the hard work that other put in to hone their skills.

Ok, I love music of all sorts. Cajun Zydeco to Metal to Jazz. Everything except way productions....anyways... In 1991, in support of their very successful album, Empire, Queensryche performed their epic concept album Operation Mindcrime in it's entirety. I saw this performance live and it remains to this day the absolute best concert I have ever attended. O.K., they perform a song titled Suite Sister Mary where the lead singer for Queensryche (who is a real marvel) let's loose with Pamela Moore who compliments him perfectly. If this 1991 performance wasn't enough, fast forward to 2007 and the two are at it again. This time in a much smaller venue but absolutely incredible nonetheless. Ok... so I am going on and on, raving to my wife (who shares an office with me) about what a "freak of nature" the two are...and how hardly anyone can still sing as good as they did when 20 years ago and blah, blah, blah... she laughed and said in sarcastic inflection "It's spirits....that ain't natural....gotta be spirits..." Of course I laughed so hard I had to pause my musical ecstasy long enough to bounce over here and fully share. 1991 ( fast forward to 2:45 and let it play to the guitar solo and again to 6:40 ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQU2JPmH7NE&feature=related 2007 ( fast forward to 2:45 and let it play to the guitar solo and again to 6:45 ) See if you can see when the spirits jump in and out...

Just like it! (only totally different.)

I call it disparity in actions and words.

Wasn't the love offering rendered on the motor coach?

Oh, ya....silly me....

But it was mandatory?....until the no gifts bs?....

That must've been an "old wine skin" by the time I came around. I never hear of it until now....wtf is it?

I just realized I told why I left. I was reeled in because I was young and vulnerable. I was violent, heavily on hard drugs, lived a VERY wild life and I wanted to change. So, there was someone going to fellowship and I thought I would give it a try even though I couldn't stand most Christians because I thought they were all a bunch of wimps. Well, I changed my direction with God's help, quit drugs long ago, am only violent if there is no other choice - which is a complete 180, and Craig's yelling and rage appealed to me because he didn't appear weak. Turns out we was VERY weak. So in the process of all of this TWI stepped in to take the credit for the Lord's deliverance that was worked in my life, I decided that if God would be willing to help a mean SOB like me then I would be willing to do whatever he needed. Turns out the way international has programs in place for well meaning people like me. That is classic!!

I used to hate that crap. So, mmmm....I wasn't new...fellowship was to meet needs...so because I am a grad I have no needs? Of course they would never say this in doctrine only imply it through their practices. Which of course most in the way international are to numb to infer what is stated by THEIR OWN practices. I am sure they can interpret my actions though.... here is an action.... .....by the way, how come the cuss checker lets the mooner get by but catches Pe$h1tt@....damn thing must be broken... The cuss checker must be in the way international....it can't interpret my mooner guy's practice of mooning casual readers.... ok, time to go witnessing....man the magazine aisles....grab something the person next to you is reading...now....feign interest..."so you like golf?" ....person answers..."Uhhh....yah?..!....witnesser responds "God's made the universe similar to a golf ball, except it's filled with water and the earth would be a molecule floating in the water...." ....golf fan runs like hell!

Well, as many bones as I have to pick with the way international, they are not 100% wrong. Their own teachings on how the "value and delusion of the counterfeit is increased by it's nearness to the likeness of the original" testify against them. I have narrowed my definition of splinter group a little to be a little more in line with what Wordwolf and waysider said to begin with. I don't expect everyone else to do the same. I also agree with Skyrider, that Wierwille is an off shoot of Leonard. I guess to me the fruits produced have to be the indicator of off shoot, since to me the term implies false ministry, led by false ministers. I respect others application of the definition and the differing view points in how it's applied. I think that's one of the things that makes Grease Spot somewhat unique is many of us left the same way international mold and have gone in so many different directions. Yet we are still able to come together for a common good.

Well, they got me started with the very beginning of a relationship with God. Study, prayer, fellowship with other Christians, etc. However, as I've said elsewhere on the forums, they then promptly and subtly started placing themselves as my arbitrator with God, becoming his representative, and eventually sitting in place of God - demanding my absolute sold out commitment to the way international. I was reeled in hook, line, and sinker. It happens so subtly and they groomed for the process. They will have to explain all of that come bema time. Rosie....you got some splainin to do....

Several doctrinal reasons capped off by the board of directors hypocrisy and mean spirited attitudes towards the way corps. This is by no means a complete list and it's in no order of importance. I left because I found out first hand that all the power they claim to have is just an empty promise. I put my whole heart in their principles (that they falsely claim just work) on healing and found it to be riddled with lies. So in short, the way they approach God is from a heart of demanding something that is rightfully theirs. Like spoiled children. God resists the proud....anywho. Also, they have virtually eliminated all things Jesus Christ and placed themselves as the head of the church in his supposed absence. That to me is a big one. The tithe. All the bible says to the Christian is to give as they purpose in their heart and do it cheerfully. No where are we supposed to give to get God's blessings. That's just a plain old LIE! I believe God will bless you whether you give money or not and can back that one up with the simple truth of God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. If you follow the way internationals pseudo-logic then that would be a response to the world giving at least 10% because God won't spit in our direction unless we give the minimum. By the way, they never recanted The Forehead's give until it hurts teachings in the late 90s so one has to assume they still stand. Sorry innies. Above all. They could care less about the way corps unless the corps are towing the line on what Rosalie wants for them. They will grudgingly work with you if your request is not to far out of line with Rosie's desires. But when you have an assignment request that you and your wife have decided is best the watch out. They will do anything in their power to get you into submissive obedience because they think they represent God in placing people in the body of Christ. (pssst....hey Rosie, Christ is the head of the church....not you...I know...try tending your garden a while...that'll keep you busy...) Eventually, she may even attack you directly like she did me and my wife. She even sent in one of her lap dog vice presidents to divide us, which failed. I saw her k9s up close and personal and know first hand that the people running the way international are not good people. In fact after my experiences I can say first hand they are EVIL!

Thank you, thank you very much!

I dunno. This is not directed at you in anyway Abigail and I appreciate the link and your posts. But the content in the link just makes me want to run off and barf. I am so tired of in-fighting from organizations that are in themselves of little value. Men come along and build their towers of babel to impress God with the works of their own hands and then demand allegiance from others. Claiming an overstated importance all the way that WE HAVE THE IMPORTANT TRUTH and OUR WAY IS THE WAY! Then the splinters happen and they throw scriptural references to condemn the other. What a travesty and what a testimony to the futility of man's works versus accepting God's righteousness by faith. Again, perhaps this content can be moved to another subsection? I would rather stick to About the Way in this section, even though I wander astray from time to time.

Abolished?....no. Fulfilled and expanded upon by Christ?.....yes. However, God's promises to Israel are in no way fulfilled. And it's plain in Hebrews that the law is a shadow of things to come. There seems to be some unfinished business.

Great points! I guess some of the more non impacting doctrinal issues, such as 4 crucified, were like candy sprinkles on a cake. But boy were they dangled as being SO important.

Thanks again! I guess that accounts for some of the (seeming) blanket use of the term. It would appear that since doctrinal issues can be subjective to a marked degree, that criteria alone could cause the label to be applied by someone who disagrees with doctrinal points. I guess with me some biblical doctrines taught in TWI are acceptable since I can follow along in the bible and see the proof. Many things aren't and require significant scripture stretching to get them to "fit." I guess in the end it comes back to not really caring too much about labels because the fruit produced is the biggest indicator. VPW was a charlatan and worse. But he ripped off works that other very brilliant people produced. Bullinger is a prime example. Was he totally right? Nope. Was he brilliant in some topics? Yep. Can he be discounted because his ideals clash with others more established positions? Yep. Then it begs the question, was Charles Welsch a splinter group leader, and so it goes. I am of Paul, I am of Appolos. The whole idea of committing myself to a ministry is in itself ant-Christian since Christians are suppose to make Christ Lord! I digress and ramble.

Being newer to Grease Spot I have read up on splinter groups a little. I'm curious. If someone is in the way international and starts a ministry after leaving what choice do they have but to be labeled a splinter group by most here? I mean it seems that term is loosely defined and widely applied. Can someone clarify that please? Thanks!

nametags in public = cult freakshow!

The more I think about it, I have a good friend who is Jehovah's Witness and from talking to him, I can see a lot of similarities in certain beliefs they hold with TWI. Vast difference too.

And probably be lauded for his in-depth spiritual perception and awareness by the higher-ups!

Good stuff.

This practice was in full swing as late as 2008 in way publications, where she was the department coordinator and presidents cabinet for many years. She was way pub right up until she became vice president in 1996. Many other departments had this practice as well, esp. departments that were in her cabinet area. The victims had to sign out on note paper located in a common location, usually where anyone and everyone could see it, and then write the location(s) going to: restroom, lobby, bookstore,other departments, break, etc.

Oh, we matter more than they will ever know. At HQ they are too thick headed to acknowledge the effect that place like GreaseSpot has had on new prospects. There are a lot of people witnessed to who hop on that nasty internet and come face to face with the way international's sins. Lot of people. Perhaps Rozilla should listen to her branch coordinators. We know she would never condescend but if she did, and they were honest, she would find out just how much is accomplished by us people who "don't matter!"